An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business Seanad Éireann — 2026-05-06 ============================================================ Joe O'Reilly (FG), Labour Panel Apologies, Senator Scahill was next. I will come back to him presently. Staying with Senator Byrne, he argued that there should not be that level of delay and he is right. We will get that point made and fed in and will try to see what can be done about it. I personally have an interest in that issue. I know from work in my office that people are waiting too long. The Tánaiste said recently that we should focus on energy support and he is right. We have to give people fishing rods as well as fish. It is not enough to just apply a patch to deal with the present-day problem. Of course, we have to do that but we also want to get the heat pumps, solar panels and insulation in and create a situation where we do not need this into the future and where we would be fit to cope in an energy crisis. Senator Scahill raises a very good point. In fact, I almost fell victim to this scam myself. Quite seriously, my youngest son has a tendency to lose a lot of things, which he did not lick off the grass. Neither did he lick off the grass a level of disorganisation, so when I got that call, my son was abroad and I was sure that he had lost his phone. I had gone most of the way to dealing with it and to sending money. They looked for money. The next message that comes back after one responds is that the son wants money. One transfers it and then one gives them access to one's bank account and they can get more money. It is a very effective scam because it pulls at the heart strings and gets to one's insecurities about a child abroad. Senator Scahill's child happened to be eight or nine years of age and sitting beside him but how many people were like me when it happened? We were anxious about a young fellow travelling out in Asia at the time when I got that message. I was sure he had lost his phone and I was really concerned and I was about to send money. I nearly did it. I went almost to the wire. Senator Scahill is right in what he says. I heard a figure of €160 million on the radio the other day, which is a huge amount of money to be gone in fraud. As Senator Scahill said, that money is gone to very dubious actors, places and causes. Approximately 57% of people retrieve their money but think of the poor unfortunate 43% whose hard-earned money evaporates. Very few people can afford to lose whatever is in their bank account. The Senator also mentioned the gardaí coming out of Templemore last week and that something should be done about that. If I understood correctly, he proposed that a specific dedicated unit be established. My own nephew, Brian Tully, from Roscommon - the Senator will know the young man and his family - was one of those who graduated last week and I want to congratulate him. Senator Scahill is correct that part of that group which came out of Templemore should be dedicated to this issue. I have to give Senator Scahill very full answers or I would be in trouble domestically. Senator Andrews raised the very important and fascinating issue of the reform of the in camera rule and the accountability for parents which can be hidden by the in camera rule. He is right that we need to look at this. We need transparency here and for parents to take responsibility. If justice is seen to be done publicly, those parents will step up to the mark. They will be shamed into doing it. It is amazing how public shaming can get the right result. I agree with Senator Andrews on that point. I will try to get that point brought to the Minister for justice and he should raise it again. It is worthy of further discussion in this House. I will take the contributions of Senators Sarah O’Reilly and Martin Conway together. The two addressed the question of surrogacy from differing perspectives. I will start with Senator Conway and go back to Senator O’Reilly’s well-made points. Senator Conway is right that there are children all over this country in limbo. We had a colleague in this House, Senator emeritus, let us call her, Mary Seery Kearney, who is a great pioneer in this area. She has an 11-year-old child who does not have full legal rights from a family perspective as things stand. That is the point Senator Conway was making. Senator Sarah O’Reilly was making the point that there must be protection for birth mothers, foster parents and adoptive parents. Hers was the flip side of the same point but they are not mutually exclusive. There is no reason that we cannot live in a society that accommodates the human rights of all concerned and ensures rights and that there is not an abuse of women, whether they are abroad or in this country. I thank both Senators. I personally agree with Senator Duffy. I was a member of a joint policing committee, JPC, and it did great interactive work. It was very good. I was a local representative. You could attend the meetings and know what was happening in your area. Often the superintendents and senior inspectors would come down chatting. Indeed, Senator Tully was on the JPC with me in the past. You would raise a point in broad terms in the public arena there and the superintendent might come down and chat to you afterwards on the specifics of that and there was follow-up. Very often the superintendent would come back to you later. The input of public representatives is a big loss to those committees and I think it does need reform. Senator McCarthy sounded a very interesting note on the hantavirus. It is a sobering reminder to all of us that we are never all that far from a potential global pandemic. With global travel and things the way they are internationally we can have a pandemic at any time. That is one of the reasons, without being party political, that we cannot squander the family jewels and spend every penny in the public coffers. We have to keep a contingency fund. You never know when we will have a virus, a natural disaster or an act of terrorism. We do need to have money in reserve. There could be a national outbreak of animal disease like foot and mouth or avian flu. We cannot spend the family silver exclusively at one time. That merits saying. Senator McCarthy raised a valid point. We are concerned about the two Irish citizens. I anticipated the big news things that would come up here and I contacted the Department of foreign affairs on this question. The Department is following up with consular assistance for the two Irish people involved. It is a concerning situation, that is all I can say. The Senator is right to raise it. Senator Pauline Tully raised a matter that I previously raised on the Order of Business a few weeks ago. I could not agree with her more. Her office is located just up the street from mine in Cavan. It is possible that we have some of the same people. Certainly, in my office - and it cannot be that different in the hers - people are coming in and stating that they have got home help approved but they are waiting for months and can get no help. What good is that letter to a poor creature who cannot get out of bed or have a shower, when her family have to collect the children from school and there is no help. We all know the difficulties involved. I will not labour the point. The Senator is absolutely correct. We have to bring in a State system of home care along the lines of the fair deal model in order that people will have an automatic right to home care. It should be organised in a way similar to the fair deal scheme and we get home care workers paid properly on a full-time basis. As they give up one portfolio when a person dies, they get another client. There is a need for radical reform here. The Senator is absolutely right. These things are above party politics. I have no inhibition about having a debate on the matter in the Chamber or about joining the Senator in raising it here, particularly as it is so important. Colleagues are nodding in agreement. We are picking all picking up on this in our clinics. Well done to the Senator for raising the matter. I do not think I have not left anyone out. If I have, sincere apologies. I thank the Senators for their contributions. --- Source: Houses of the Oireachtas. Licensed under CC BY 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/). The Official Report is revised after first publication; the fetch timestamp below identifies the version quoted. Record URI: https://data.oireachtas.ie/akn/ie/debateRecord/seanad/2026-05-06/debate/main Retrieved: 2026-08-14T04:54:54+00:00 Sitting date: 2026-05-06