Criminal Law, Civil Law and Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026: Report and Final Stages Dail Éireann — 2026-06-10 ============================================================ Matt Carthy (SF), Cavan-Monaghan It seems a long time ago that the justice committee considered the heads of this criminal and civil law Bill. A lot more heads have been introduced since. One of our criticisms of the heads of the Bill was that there were huge aspects of the Bill we were not able to spend any time on. We did not get to deal with the sex-for-rent provisions and a whole load of other areas at all. We could only deal with written submissions. We discussed this aspect of the Bill quite a lot, however. There was cross-party agreement. The Minister will know that pre-legislative scrutiny reports sometimes get nodded through and that sometimes somebody proposes something without others realising. This was a considered debate and discussion and all members of that committee agreed that there should be a complete and unconditional ban on the use of counselling records in sexual offence trials. We all have a responsibility in this area but, as Chairperson of that committee, I feel a particular responsibility to bring forward and stay true to that position and to outline how that decision was come to. Crucial to reaching that decision was listening to what victims and survivors had to say both through written testimony - there was quite extensive written testimony - and through oral evidence from organisations that have first-hand experience. I will particularly mention Hazel Behan, who addressed the committee and made a profound impact on all of us, leading to the position being agreed. Survivors have strongly asserted and told us that the practice of their counselling notes being used in criminal trials, potentially in defence of the person who attacked them, causes severe psychological harm and heightens suicide risk. That is the evidence we heard. I have not heard a single person disagree with the need to protect the right to a fair trial, but we also have a duty to victims and survivors. We must also keep that duty at the heart of our justice system. That includes not subjecting victims and survivors to degrading treatment. That is what this is. It is degrading treatment if a person discusses their most personal, intimate details with a professional only for that professional's notes, however elaborate or otherwise, to be demanded by the courts, the purveyors of justice in this State, to be used to defend the person who was the reason that person needed counselling in the first place. It is absolute lunacy. Banning the disclosure of counselling notes is about recognising that they are hearsay evidence. It is about rebalancing our justice system so that there is not only a fair trial but a fair justice system for victims and survivors. The amendment I have put forward, No. 18, provides for a full ban on the disclosure of counselling notes, because that is what is needed. We have discussed it at length. We have heard from victims and survivors. We have heard about the trauma of intimate details being shared. I will also speak briefly to amendment No. 24, which seeks to remove the Minister's wording "in the interests of justice". Again, we discussed this in quite a lot of detail on Committee Stage. Above all else, that amendment to the original Bill brought forward by the Minister is the cause of concern. We all know that solicitors and barristers are going to have an absolute field day discussing that wording. We know that term will allow some defence attorneys to secure the counselling notes of some victims. That is why we have brought forward that amendment. Amendment No. 25 is the last resort. It was submitted on the advice of Rape Crisis Ireland. It proposes that, in the event of these types of notes being brought forward, there would be a very clear instruction to jurors that they are hearsay evidence. I hope that would dissuade some defence counsel from seeking them in the first place. However, what is actually needed is that full and unconditional ban. That is what the Oireachtas committee recommended. That is our job. We are tasked with analysing the heads of the Bill and bringing forward recommendations to the Minister. I express my sincere thanks for those people who have told their stories. I have mentioned this before. In order to save others from the trauma that they have gone through, they have told the world their most intimate details. They have gone beyond the counselling room to try to make that a safe place for others. I thank all of those, including some of them who are in the Gallery and many others whom I have had the privilege of meeting. I acknowledge and recognise Deputy Coppinger's effort throughout all of this. I say this to my shame, but the first time that I became aware that this was an issue was when Deputy Coppinger brought a Private Members' Bill before this House. It is not too often on a Thursday late evening debate that you are moved by an issue, but I was moved by an issue. The argument appeared unassailable then and it is still unassailable as far as I am concerned. Even at this late stage, and we have the Stages in the Seanad and all of the rest of it, I implore the Minister to find a way to make all of those efforts worthwhile and find a way to ban a cruel and inhumane practice. --- Source: Houses of the Oireachtas. Licensed under CC BY 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/). The Official Report is revised after first publication; the fetch timestamp below identifies the version quoted. Record URI: https://data.oireachtas.ie/akn/ie/debateRecord/dail/2026-06-10/debate/main Retrieved: 2026-09-28T05:50:47+00:00 Sitting date: 2026-06-10