◎ OireachtasDB

Dail Éireann · 2023-05-09

Ceisteanna - Questions · to the Taoiseach

3 questions · 28 contributions · 12 speakers · 4,365 words

In this session

Most used terms in this session

How often each word appears across the whole session, ranked by how distinctive it is to it rather than common to all parliamentary language.

special 29
ewcs 7
service 30
ncse 11
classes 14
siteserv 6
ibrc 5
commission 16
impropriety 4
office 15
health 16
taoiseach 12

The session in full

Every question in the order taken: the question as tabled, where there is one, then the exchange.

Departmental Policies

Q1 SF Mary Lou McDonald to the Taoiseach

1. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [19138/23]

Q2 FG Alan Dillon to the Taoiseach

2. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the public service, justice and police reform division of his Department. [19441/23]

Q3 LAB Ivana Bacik to the Taoiseach

3. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20421/23]

Q4 SF Ruairí Ó Murchú to the Taoiseach

4. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20529/23]

Q5 SF Mary Lou McDonald to the Taoiseach

5. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and public services will next meet. [20325/23]

Q6 SD Cian O'Callaghan to the Taoiseach

6. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20669/23]

Q7 PBP Mick Barry to the Taoiseach

7. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20682/23]

Q8 GP Marc Ó Cathasaigh to the Taoiseach

8. Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21307/23]

Q9 LAB Ivana Bacik to the Taoiseach

9. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach which Cabinet committee deals with ethics reform; and when it will next meet. [21482/23]

Q10 PBP Richard Boyd Barrett to the Taoiseach

10. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21528/23]

Q11 PBP Paul Murphy to the Taoiseach

11. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21531/23]

Q12 PBP Bríd Smith to the Taoiseach

12. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21534/23]

FG Leo Varadkar

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 12, inclusive, together.

The role of the social policy and public service reform division is to assist me, as Taoiseach, and the Government, in fulfilling programme for Government objectives to help create a socially inclusive and fair society. Specifically, the division assists the work of the newly established Cabinet committees as follows. The Cabinet committee on social affairs and public services and the associated senior officials group oversee programme for Government commitments in the areas of social policy, with a particular focus on equality and integration and public service reform, which includes efforts to reform the statutory framework for ethics in public office. The committee last met on 8 May and will meet again in the period ahead.

The Cabinet committee on children and education and the associated senior officials group oversee the programme for Government commitments in the area of children and education, including further and higher education, with a specific focus on child poverty and well-being and confronting local area disadvantage.

The Cabinet committee on health and the associated senior officials group oversee programme for Government commitments regarding health and health system reforms, including Sláintecare, reform of disability services and development of mental health services. This committee will also maintain an overview of public health, including the impact of Covid-19 and the cross-government response.

The Cabinet committee on the humanitarian response to Ukraine and the associated senior officials group oversee the whole-of-government humanitarian response to assist people from Ukraine who have sought temporary protection here. The division also assists the work of the Civil Service management board, which oversees Civil Service renewal and other matters. It has departmental oversight of the National Economic and Social Council, NESC, advances the Dublin north-east inner city, NEIC, initiative, including through assisting the work of the programme implementation board, programme office and oversight group. It has responsibility for managing the child poverty and well-being programme office which is bringing strategic leadership and enhanced accountability to these issues. It assists public service reform through membership of the public service leadership board and public service management group. It provides me with briefing and speech material on social policy and public service reform issues. It also incorporates the policing reform implementation programme office, which oversees the implementation of A Policing Service for our Future, which is the Government’s plan to reform policing in Ireland in line with the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland.

FG Josepha Madigan

I would like to thank the Deputy for the question and would like to advise the following:

My department is committed to delivering an education system that is of the highest quality and where every child and young person feels valued and is actively supported and nurtured to reach their full potential. My department strives to ensure that every child has access to an educational experience that is appropriate to their needs and supports both their academic and personal development.

As part of Budget 2023, my department’s budget was substantially increased, by over 10%, meaning that for 2023 the department will spend over €2.6 billion on special education. This level of educational funding and support is unprecedented and represents in excess of 27% of the department’s total allocation for 2023. This includes additional teaching and care supports.

Additional funding is also being provided to allow the National Council for Special Education (NCSE) recruit additional staff, including Special Educational Needs Organisers (SENOs). These additional resources should ensure that the NCSE can better support parents and schools in relation to the provision of special education needs places.

Our policy, which is set out in the Education of Persons with Special Educational Needs (EPSEN) Act 2004 is that children with special educational needs should be educated in mainstream placements with additional supports provided as appropriate.

Where children require more specialised educational settings, such as special classes or special schools, the department and the NCSE ensures that the necessary resources and supports for such placements are provided in line with the needs of the child.

We have made a lot of progress over the last three years in terms of providing special classes and special school places with over 600 new special classes sanctioned at primary level, almost 300 new special classes sanctioned at post-primary level and five new special schools established over the last three years.

There are a total of 2,537 special classes opened nationwide. Of the 2,537 special classes, there are 1798 at primary level and 739 at post primary level. We want to continue this level of progress to ensure that there are sufficient places in special classes and special schools for children who need them.

Just recently on 12th April, Minister Foley and l announced the establishment of two new special schools as part of a comprehensive update on enhanced education provision for students with special educational needs. These two new special schools will be established in Carrigtwohill, east Cork and Dublin 7 for the 2023/24 school year.

Along with the two new special schools, I also confirmed that 218 new special classes have been sanctioned by the NCSE for opening in the coming school year 2023/2024, with more to be confirmed in the coming weeks – 126 at primary and 92 at post-primary level.

Of these new classes, 29 are in Co. Dublin, with 15 at primary level and 14 at post-primary level. These new classes will bring the total number of special classes in Co. Dublin to 494, 376 at primary and 118 at post-primary. Additional special classes will be sanctioned in the coming weeks.

The NCSE has advised my department that it continues to work with schools to ensure all students identified as requiring places in the special class meet the Department of Education’s criteria for enrolment in a special class.

Parents seeking special class placements for their children are advised to contact the NCSE locally so that their needs can be taken into account for planning purposes. The local SENOs remain available to assist and advise parents of children with special educational needs. Parents may contact SENOs directly using the contact details available at: ncse.ie/regional-services-contact-list.

Information on the list of schools with special classes, the types and locations of these classes is published on the NCSE website and is available at www.ncse.ie.

I want to reassure you also that my department will continue to support the NCSE and schools through the provision of the necessary funding and capital investment to ensure all children are successful in accessing an education.

As your query refers to an individual placement case, I will arrange to have it referred to the NCSE for their attention and direct reply.

FF Stephen Donnelly

As this is a service matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond to the Deputy directly, as soon as possible.

FF Mary Butler

As this is an operational matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond to the deputy directly, as soon as possible.

PBP Richard Boyd Barrett

I have two points. First, given the scandal of both asylum seekers coming to this country who are now sleeping in tents and are not being provided with anywhere to go, and the issue of homelessness, especially now it is likely to get worse as a result of the eviction ban being lifted, how can it be that the Jurys Hotel building with hundreds of rooms has been just lying empty for years? It is really insulting, frankly, when there are people in tents and families are being told they have to sleep in a car.

Second, I have been contacted by people in Gorey about the shock decision to close the St. Aidan's Day Care Centre at Mulcahy House for 12 weeks. It is a respite service for north Wexford. The Taoiseach knows how much family carers save our society in providing care for their loved ones with disabilities, but they need respite services. Now, for 12 weeks, those respite services are going to close and, indeed, there is a fear they may never reopen because of difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff. Will the Taoiseach look at that issue? The families and people affected are absolutely shocked at this service closing.

PBP Paul Murphy

Included in this grouping is a question about ethics reform. The Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, emerged today and, for the first time, answered some questions about his unethical behaviour, not from Deputies because he refused to do that and the Taoiseach shielded him in that decision, but instead from the media. So, for the first time, not on the Dáil record but to the media, the Minister of State admitted that in January 2007, when he participated in the decision to put land up for sale, he knew at that moment that his wife had expressed interest in buying that land. Does the Taoiseach agree his position as a Minister of State is now not tenable?

I can read for the Taoiseach from the code of conduct for councillors, which is crystal clear. It states:

...under the 2001 Act councillors must disclose at a meeting of the local authority or of its committees any pecuniary or other beneficial interest, (of which they have actual knowledge) they or a connected person have in, or material to, any matter with which the local authority is concerned in the discharge of its functions, and which comes before the meeting. The councillor must withdraw from the meeting after disclosure and must not vote or take part in any discussion or consideration of the matter or seek to in any other aspect influence the decision making of the Council.

The Minister of State has admitted it. He said he knew. He had knowledge at the time. It is absolutely black and white. He did not discharge himself. He did not declare the interest. How can he continue as a Minister of State?

FF Stephen Donnelly

The Government and the Department of Health are fully committed to improving genetics services in Ireland, including at CHI Crumlin. In 2023, I allocated €2.7 million to implement the National Strategy for Accelerating Genetics and Genomics Medicine in Ireland, including the establishment of a National Office of Genetics and Genomics and the recruitment of key staff within the National Office and the wider genomics service.

A priority for 2023 is to ensure that key frontline staff and National Office roles are recruited. Appointment of staff to the National Office for Genetics and Genomics is underway. To accelerate the establishment of this office, interim appointments will be made for the senior positions in the first instance. The Interim National Director has now been appointed and commenced in post. The interview process for the Interim National Bio-Informatics Director has commenced.

Regarding the matters raised by Deputy Paul Murphy, it is my firm view that Ministers are accountable to the Dáil and should make statements and take questions about their actions. However, if it is the case that Ministers are accountable to the Dáil for actions that do not relate to their work as Ministers, that should apply to all Deputies and all Deputies should be willing to answer questions here in the Dáil and make statements.

FG Simon Harris

I am informed that records indicate two allegations of child sexual abuse have been made in relation to the Probation Service. Both relate to alleged incidents in the 1970s by a former staff member who is now deceased.

I am informed that when the first allegation came to the attention of the Probation Service, An Garda Síochána and relevant services were notified. The Probation Service later became aware of a second allegation against the same former staff member, who by that time was deceased. The complainant in this instance has submitted a case which is being managed by the State Claims Agency on behalf of my Department. The Deputy will appreciate I am not in a position to comment further as the matter is ongoing.

FG Leo Varadkar

That should be agreed across the board. We should also have fair rules on that; they are not always there. I do not think it is right that only Ministers should be required to attend to the Dáil, particularly when it does not relate to their ministerial functions which is what is being argued here. In the case of the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, this relates to events of 16 years ago at the Bruff area committee. I understand that complaints have now been made to the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO. SIPO is the appropriate body to make a determination on this matter and we await its decision.

Commissions of Investigation

Q13 LAB Ivana Bacik to the Taoiseach

13. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the publication of the fifteenth interim report of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC Commission of Investigation. [19244/23]

Q14 SD Catherine Murphy to the Taoiseach

14. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the publication of the fifteenth interim report of the IBRC Commission of Investigation. [21537/23]

FG Leo Varadkar

I propose to take Questions Nos. 13 and 14 together.

The IBRC Commission of Investigation was established in June 2015 following consultation with Oireachtas parties to investigate certain transactions, activities and management decisions at the IBRC, beginning with the Siteserv transaction in its first module. The commission’s original deadline for reporting was 31 December 2015 but following requests from the commission and after consultation with Oireachtas parties, its timeframe for reporting was extended on multiple occasions.

The commission’s report on the Siteserv transaction was received in July 2022 and it was subsequently published and debated in the Dáil and Seanad. In October 2022, the then Taoiseach accepted the commission’s recommendation in its 13th interim report that it should not pursue investigation of the remaining 37 transactions covered by its terms of reference as it is of the view that no useful purpose would be served by investigating them. Accordingly, the commission’s investigation is now complete other than finalising its work on the costs payable to witnesses who appeared before it.

The commission originally envisaged that it would complete its work on costs by the end of March 2023 but in its 15th interim report, dated 16 March 2023, the commission requested an extension until the end of May 2023 to complete this work. I granted the commission’s request and arranged for a copy of its 15th interim report to be published and laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

From the time of its establishment in June 2015, to the end of March 2023, the commission spent approximately €13.1 million. This figure does not include third-party legal costs which have been incurred but not paid and which are a matter for the commission to determine. The final cost for the commission will become clear only when all the cost orders are made and when any possible legal challenges that may arise are resolved.

SD Catherine Murphy

This extension is to deal with the costs and any legal challenges, meaning this may not be the last extension. The IBRC Commission of Investigation was set up under the 2004 Act. That bespoke legislation effectively turned the commission of investigation into a tribunal but behind closed doors. It dealt with one of 38 transactions. A very comprehensive report found that the transaction was not commercially sound because it was so tainted by impropriety. We need to consider if we have the apparatus in the State to catch things in real time. For example, does the Corporate Enforcement Agency have the capacity where investigations are required to be done, including ones that actually will challenge some very powerful people? Do we need to revisit what apparatus we have? Despite the time it took, it dealt with only one transaction, albeit it was a very comprehensive report. We need either a Government or an all-party approach to looking at how we deal with things in a timely and cost-effective manner in the future. We either need to invest in real-time strong enforcement or we if we are going to be dealing with it through inquiries afterwards, those inquiries need to be cost effective and timely. I do not think we have that at the moment.

SF Mary Lou McDonald

In its interim report, the commission noted that the State Claims Agency provides it with considerable assistance with witnesses' costs applications. Indeed, the agency is a significant entity in terms of purchasing legal services. It was previously reported that the State Claims Agency, the Office of the Attorney General and the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, had all refused to sign up to the Bar of Ireland's equitable briefing policy to promote equality of opportunity for female barristers. Is this still the case?

The Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, attended the launch of the Bar of Ireland's policy and told attendees that embedding gender equality, human rights, diversity and inclusion in the legal profession is a priority for Government. He also correctly said that actions speak louder than words. What action has Government taken over recent months to resolve this matter? Can we expect the State Claims Agency, the Office of the DPP and the Office of the Attorney General to sign up to the equitable briefing policy which includes a confidential reporting mechanism to monitor and measure progress? Can the Taoiseach offer us a rationale or a rational basis for the Attorney General, the DPP and the State Claims Agency refusing to sign up to this policy in the first place?

PBP Paul Murphy

It is worth reminding ourselves what is the essence of this. What was being investigated was a massive rip-off and loss for the public to the tune of €118 million written off by IBRC, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, to the benefit of the Denis O'Brien-owned Siteserv. The fundamental conclusion is that the IBRC was misled by Siteserv directors over the transaction. The phrase "tainted with impropriety" is mentioned an incredible 44 times in the report. In that context, it is very unfortunate that 37 other transactions will not be investigated. They were identified on the basis that they were transactions where the bank suffered a net loss of at least €10 million each. Given the findings of what happened with Siteserv, whereby the public was definitely ripped off, there is a possibility that similar practices took place in those other instances. While I understand the complexity of pursuing some of these issues, simply to say "No, we can't go there" is quite unfortunate.

PBP Richard Boyd Barrett

Tomorrow night the now multi-award-winning film about the Debenhams dispute will be shown here in the audiovisual room. The Taoiseach is invited, by the way, direct from the shop stewards. Vincent Browne will be hosting a question-and-answer panel afterwards. The film highlights very serious questions about, obviously, the treatment of the Debenhams workers, but also how the whole insolvency was handled - certainly questions and possible corporate impropriety for which those workers suffered very grievously. As I think I mentioned to the Taoiseach previously, I, some of the workers and some of the filmmakers brought to the Corporate Enforcement Authority some of the stuff we found out, some of which is portrayed in the film if the Taoiseach gets see it. It will go on general release in week or two.

This relates to Deputy Paul Murphy's point about Siteserv.

If somebody steals something in a shop, the police are called and the person can be chased up and potentially prosecuted and imprisoned very quickly. The Corporate Enforcement Authority, however, essentially has no resources to do anything. When we told it there are very serious questions, it said that while it took on board what we were saying, it was restricted in its ability to tell us if it even found anything. It was not even clear to me to whom it reports. The contrast between the way white-collar impropriety or outright crime is pursued as against what happens to ordinary people who may be accused of crime is pretty stark. This is what this sort of thing highlights. Does the Taoiseach not think this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency?

SF Mary Lou McDonald

I also asked about the equitable briefing policy and the failure of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions and other offices to sign off.

FG Leo Varadkar

I apologise to the Deputy. I do not believe I have the answer to that question but I will come back to the Deputy by correspondence on that.

SF Mary Lou McDonald

I appreciate that.

FG Leo Varadkar

There were a number of questions here, the responses for which did not relate to the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation commission of investigation, so I might come back to Deputies by correspondence if that is okay.

FF Anne Rabbitte

As this refers to service matters, I have asked the Health Service Executive (HSE) to respond to the Deputy directly, as soon as possible.

Cabinet Committees

Q15 FF Seán Haughey to the Taoiseach

15. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [19385/23]

Q16 SF Ruairí Ó Murchú to the Taoiseach

16. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [20528/23]

Q17 SF Mary Lou McDonald to the Taoiseach

17. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [20324/23]

Q18 PBP Mick Barry to the Taoiseach

18. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [20683/23]

Q19 PBP Richard Boyd Barrett to the Taoiseach

19. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [21529/23]

Q20 PBP Paul Murphy to the Taoiseach

20. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [21532/23]

Q21 PBP Bríd Smith to the Taoiseach

21. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [21535/23]

Q22 LAB Ivana Bacik to the Taoiseach

22. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [21485/23]

Q23 PBP Mick Barry to the Taoiseach

23. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe will next meet. [21669/23]

FG Leo Varadkar

I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 to 23, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs was established by the Government on 18 January 2023. Its role is to oversee the implementation of programme for Government commitments relating to the European Union and international issues. The committee generally meets in advance of meetings of the European Council and we expect it will do so again ahead of the meeting that will take place in Brussels at the end of June.

FF Seán Haughey

What are the Taoiseach's views regarding ongoing reports of Russian ships operating off Ireland's west coast, including in our exclusive economic zone? Only last week, four Russian navy and merchant ships were observed close to undersea cable sites. Clearly this must be seen as a threat to the flow of global digital communications in particular. We are now all aware of the threats posed by Putin and the role of hybrid warfare. As I understand it, our critical infrastructure includes natural gas subsea interconnectors, an electric subsea interconnector, and subsea cables that make up our telecommunications infrastructure, many of which link Europe and the United States of America.

What are our Defence Forces, in particular our Naval Service, doing in this regard? Is enhanced maritime patrolling taking place? Have the Defence Forces the necessary capabilities to undertake this work? Is this something that will be examined by the consultative forum that was recently established by the Tánaiste concerning foreign security and defence policy? I am conscious there is an EU directive, the network and information security, NIS, 2 directive, relating to this area. I am interested in the Taoiseach's views on this matter.

SF Ruairí Ó Murchú

I, too, wish to follow up on the Russian ships in Irish waters. We have already heard mention today of the secret air defence agreement with the RAF. There needs to be far more discussion of that and the whole question of military non-alignment. It raises the question of capacity. Considering the humanitarian operation, and we can see much good work was done in Sudan, there are questions to be asked. We have had the Commission on Defence Forces and we live in an age of hybrid and cyber warfare, so we need to make sure we have a review of the dangers we face and the capacity to deal with them.

I need to make an apology. When I brought up the issue of the GAA, I did not mention and wish luck to the players and management of the Louth team. We are hoping for far better luck in the Leinster final than we have had in previous times.

FF Mary Butler

As this is a service matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond directly to the Deputy as soon as possible.

FF Stephen Donnelly

As this is a service matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond to the deputy directly, as soon as possible.

FF Mary Butler

As this is a service matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond directly to the Deputy as soon as possible.

PBP Paul Murphy

Ireland is now the third country in Europe in the context of the number of European works councils, EWCs, based here. It is a requirement under EU law for major corporations to have councils for, effectively, consultation and discussion with their employees. After Brexit, a substantial number of companies moved their EWCs to this country. Millions of workers, therefore, are affected by how EWCs operate here. In recent weeks, we have seen major lay-offs by tech multinationals. We have seen the danger that Ireland will be used as the wild west with regard to workers' rights, as part of a race to the bottom affecting workers here and right across Europe.

The European Commission has found that our legislation on EWCs, particularly as regards disputes, does not live up to the EU directive and has sent a formal notice to that effect to the Government. What is the Government doing to ensure that our legislation meets EU standards, especially as regards allowing for disputes to be taken by EWCs? A significant first case was taken to the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, last week, the finding of which highlighted many issues regarding legislation. One conclusion was that a code of practice on EWCs should be in place. Will the Government commit to introducing such a code of conduct, as exists in many other European countries? Another conclusion of the WRC decision was that the chairpersons of EWCs were effectively shouldered with half the costs of training themselves, which goes against the whole basic principle that it is the company that pays for training and other things to do with the EWC.

FF Stephen Donnelly

As this is a service matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond to the Deputy directly.

I would also like to remind the Deputy that it is against Department policy to comment on individual cases.

FF Stephen Donnelly

Under the Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Act 2013, the Health Service Executive (HSE) has statutory responsibility for the administration of the community drug schemes; therefore, the matter has been referred to the HSE for attention and direct reply to the Deputy.

I am very much aware of the case of Mr. Phelan, who is being detained in Iran. The Department of Foreign Affairs is working on it and we are doing all we can to ensure that man is released as soon as possible. We are aware that he is in poor health, and we are concerned about that. As Deputies will be aware, however, Iran is not the friendliest of regimes towards Ireland at the moment, and vice versa . Nevertheless, we are doing all we can and hope the issue will be seen as a humanitarian one and set aside politics in the interests of a man who is very sick and needs to get home to his family.