◎ OireachtasDB

Dail Éireann · 2024-06-12

Ceisteanna - Questions · to the Taoiseach

3 questions · 30 contributions · 9 speakers · 6,866 words

In this session

Most used terms in this session

How often each word appears across the whole session, ranked by how distinctive it is to it rather than common to all parliamentary language.

nrp 11
neagh 10
president 24
lough 12
european 28
rkiye 9
british 15
taoiseach 23
erdo 6
junior 12
israel 12
humanitarian 12

The session in full

Every question in the order taken: the question as tabled, where there is one, then the exchange.

Northern Ireland

Q1 SF Mary Lou McDonald to the Taoiseach

1. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23663/24]

Q2 FF Brendan Smith to the Taoiseach

2. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23694/24]

Q3 PBP Bríd Smith to the Taoiseach

3. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23878/24]

Q4 PBP Richard Boyd Barrett to the Taoiseach

4. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23881/24]

Q5 PBP Paul Murphy to the Taoiseach

5. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23884/24]

Q6 FF Cathal Crowe to the Taoiseach

6. Deputy Cathal Crowe asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [24765/24]

Q7 FF Paul McAuliffe to the Taoiseach

7. Deputy Paul McAuliffe asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [24766/24]

Q8 PBP Mick Barry to the Taoiseach

8. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [25387/24]

FG Simon Harris

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 8, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland was created on 10 April 2024 and will oversee implementation of programme for Government commitments and ongoing developments related to Northern Ireland. Its membership comprises me as Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence, and the Ministers for the Environment, Climate and Communications and Transport, Justice, Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform, Finance, and Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Other Ministers and Ministers of State will be invited to participate as required. It is expected to meet during the coming weeks. Issues related to Northern Ireland are also discussed at Cabinet and in bilateral meetings I regularly have.

As I previously informed the House, on my visit to Belfast on 3 May I met the First Minister and deputy First Minister, the Speaker of the Assembly and the leaders of the Alliance Party, the SDLP and the UUP. I look forward to meeting the First Minister and deputy First Minister again at the British-Irish Council summit in the Isle of Man on 20 and 21 June. Following the plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council on 8 April, a series of 12 ministerial sectoral meetings are in the process of being held before the summer recess.

SF Ruairí Ó Murchú

The island of Ireland is faced with an ecological crisis and potential catastrophe in Lough Neagh and its surrounding waterways. This was particularly evident when the green algae bloom on the lough was especially pronounced during the summer months last year. It is clear that the entire ecosystem of Lough Neagh faces a serious ecological crisis. This is a crisis and challenge for the entire island and it deserves a response on an all-Ireland basis. Long-term implications for biodiversity, public health and the sustainability of our freshwater fishing industry are now in evidence in and around the wider hinterland of Lough Neagh. As we face the warmer months, we are likely to see an escalation of this ecological crisis affecting Lough Neagh and its surrounding waterways. An urgent strategy to address the challenges in the lough and its surrounding waterways is required.

This is clearly an issue of concern, not just in the immediate environs of Lough Neagh or the North, but for the whole island of Ireland, and therefore demands a joint and co-ordinated response by the two Administrations, North and South. The critical condition of Lough Neagh must be addressed as an all-Ireland priority. In this context, has this been addressed up to now in the work of the Cabinet committee? If so, what action will develop from any discussions that have taken place? If not, will this crisis be part of the agenda for future meetings?

FF Brendan Smith

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. He will recall that at our British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly meeting in his county, a call was made, particularly by British parliamentarians, for better engagement by their own Government with the Irish Government, be it at the British-Irish Council or the British–Irish Intergovernmental Conference. We hope that, in future, the British Prime Minister and senior ministers will be regular attendees and participants at those crucial bilateral meetings where, over the years, successive taoisigh, tánaistí and ministers for foreign affairs have always participated. No doubt the Taoiseach will meet the British Prime Minister shortly after 4 July, whoever holds that office. I appeal to the Taoiseach, in his first engagement with the Prime Minister, to refer again to the legacy issue.

As we know, the British Tory Government put this deplorable legacy Act through Parliament. It is perpetrator-centred instead of victim-centred. I am thinking of the lack of co-operation by successive British Governments with regard to giving access to files and papers pertaining to the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.

I am also thinking of the lack of adequate response by the authorities in Northern Ireland with regard to investigations into the Belturbet bombing of 1972 when two young teenagers were killed. The Taoiseach and his predecessors would have heard me speak often on these very important issues in the House. I appeal to him to ensure that in his first engagement with the British Prime Minister, the legacy Act is discussed. Thankfully, the British Labour Party has committed to repealing the Act. The fight for truth and justice must continue. One way of continuing that is for the British Government to repeal that deplorable legislation through which it has dismissed the victims and their families and is ensuring that perpetrators of the most vile crimes - perpetrators from the British state forces and those from paramilitary organisations - will literally be able to give themselves immunity from the most serious of crimes.

PBP Richard Boyd Barrett

This morning, I was talking to People Before Profit MLA, Mr. Gerry Carroll, about his involvement in supporting and standing with junior doctors who have been on the picket lines in a series of walkouts in the North over the failure to get decent pay and decent conditions. It is a very familiar story of the junior doctors saying they are not valued, they are working ridiculous hours and their pay has not kept pace with inflation. Many of them are just choosing to leave and go and work elsewhere, where pay and conditions are better. Interestingly, he also reported that, as confirmed by the audit committee, in the past five years €2 billion was sent back to the Tory Government for unspent capital payments. It is pretty ironic that €2 billion was sent back to the Tory Government when it cannot pay the junior doctors who actually keep the health service going. It is pretty outrageous.

I would like to hear whether the Taoiseach has any message to those junior doctors, because we support them. They are absolutely right. If we want a health service that functions in the North, we need to pay junior doctors properly and give them decent conditions. However, it is also maybe something we should think about down here. Last week, I met a junior doctor who is working here and who is homeless - actually homeless. I could not believe it. We have to address the situation of workers like junior doctors in the health service if they are forced to go out and strike, as they are in the North or, indeed, are suffering homelessness, as some are down here, incredibly.

PBP Paul Murphy

I, too, wish to raise the issue of Lough Neagh. People will remember the horrific scenes they saw last year with the toxic algae on the lake, mirrored to a slightly lesser degree in many other lakes right across this island, North and South. We know it is not a North-only issue. We know it is not an issue that respects any border. We know also from this morning's EPA report that water quality is not getting any better in the South. On some measures, it is getting worse. The quality of water has improved in 187 water bodies but has declined in 232 others. As the director of the EPA's office of evidence and assessment, Dr. Eimear Cotter, said, "having clean water is not an optional extra." It is not something that is nice to have; it is absolutely a vital public good. We need to do everything we can to protect what we have and then drive on with further improvements in water quality. We know what the problem is. We know what we have to do, which is to move away from an industrial model of agriculture with an over-reliance on artificial fertilisers. We also need to invest in proper sewage and water treatment facilities. Are these issues the Taoiseach has discussed with his Northern counterparts?

FF Cathal Crowe

The enactment of Rishi Sunak's Rwanda Bill has put huge pressure on counties in the Border area. It has added to fear and anxiety for the migrant community. Many in Britain are seeing that migrating to Northern Ireland may now be their best option. This has manifested itself in many pressures here in the South.

Perhaps one manifestation of the problems we have seen in the past 48 hours has been at Phoenix House, which is a very large building in Shannon in County Clare housing 200 refugees. On Monday, letters were issued to all Ukrainian war refugees there to say they need to be out in two weeks and will be moved to Lisdoonvarna. Most of these people are working in factories and companies in Shannon. They have kids enrolled in schools. This is devastating. Instead of a community saying it does not want them, we actually have a community inundating Councillor David Griffin and I with messages saying these people work in the community, their children are being schooled in local schools and the community wants to keep them there. We have trade unions, locals and activists all telling us it is illogical to take them out of Phoenix House in Shannon and move them 60 km up the road. May I add that when they do move 60 km up the road, with them goes the employment. They will be on social welfare at that point because they will be in Lisdoonvarna, where there is no centre of employment. Can the Taoiseach please put eyes on this? Can he and the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, please intervene in this? It makes sense to keep them in Phoenix House rather than moving children, women and families 60 km up the road and discommoding them entirely. The community is very much speaking in unison to Councillor David Griffin and I on this matter.

PBP Mick Barry

I want to send my support to junior doctors in Northern Ireland who are once again taking strike action this month. Their pay has, in effect, been cut by 30% over the past 15 years. The junior doctors strike is about pay, but it is about more than pay. It is about defence of the National Health Service. Low pay is combining with understaffing and underfunding to force many skilled staff to emigrate or leave the profession. I hope the upcoming UK general election can become a key focal point for industrial and political action, linking strike action by junior doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers with community campaigns to defend GP and mental health services in a movement to save the National Health Service.

FG Simon Harris

I will start with Deputy Ó Murchú. I thank him for raising the issue of Lough Neagh. Before we talk about cross-Border shared island and all-island units, I was delighted to be in Omeath at a project that I know the Deputy and John O'Dowd, Minister for Infrastructure of the Northern Ireland Executive, visited recently. I believe the Narrow Water bridge project is going to be transformational for the north east of the island. I am really looking forward to seeing that under way.

The Deputy quite rightly raised the issue of Lough Neagh, as did Deputy Paul Murphy and, yes, I have discussed this with the First Minister and deputy First Minister. It was also discussed at the most recent North-South Ministerial Council, which I attended as a Minister rather than as Taoiseach, and we did ask that Departments on both parts of the island would work together in this regard. I agree it is an environmental catastrophe we are seeing at Lough Neagh. As Deputy Murphy said, it is one that does not respect any border. We have asked. The First Minister, the deputy First Minister and I did speak about it when I was last in Stormont. I expect that we will get an update from our respective officials. What we are trying to look at here is whether there are areas of co-operation and collaboration we can do around this, but also more broadly around environmental matters. It simply makes sense to be working together on these issues. I note the EPA report published this morning. I heard the director of the EPA on morning radio. This is a very serious situation. The Government shares the disappointment and concern of the EPA in that regard. As Deputy Murphy said, we can point to areas where progress has been made, but there are more areas where progress has not been made and things have gotten worse. I acknowledge that. The Deputy did not mention the word "derogation", but I do not think it is a matter of choosing between improving the water quality and keeping our derogation. It is possible to do both, but we will need to keep the derogation and show we are making progress on water quality. That progress needs to be made, and that needs to happen much more quickly. Deputy Murphy referred to fertiliser and the likes. We have seen a 30% reduction in the use of chemical fertiliser over the past two years by Irish agriculture and we need to see that trend continue.

I thank Deputy Brendan Smith for raising BIPA. I very much enjoyed the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly being in County Wicklow. We were delighted to host it. I thank him for his leadership of it, along with Karen Bradley. Of course, I am not interfering in the British election at all. Regardless of the outcome of the British election, I look forward to meeting the British Prime Minister in July. I will be attending the European Political Community meeting there anyway and I hope to have an opportunity to meet whoever is the British Prime Minister. I would also hope to have an early bilateral meeting with the British Prime Minister post the general election. Of course, in any engagements I have, I will be making the points that Deputy Smith made in terms of our eagerness to continue at a senior level close political engagement with our nearest neighbours and how important that is for the future prosperity and well-being of both our islands and our peoples.

The view of the Irish Government is very well-known with regard to the legacy Act.

We pulled all the normal levers, went through all the normal processes and, unfortunately, with a heavy heart, found ourselves having to lodge an interstate case against the United Kingdom with the European Court of Human Rights on 17 January. The deadline for intervention as a third party in this case expired on 2 May. A relatively large number of intended third parties have sought leave to intervene in the case and the court's decision is now awaited in that regard. The court will consult with the parties in due course with a view to fixing the procedures and the court will consider the admissibility of the Government's application in the first instance. Our view on the legacy Act is clear, consistent and in line with the views of all parties in Northern Ireland, who also oppose this Act for many of the reasons that Deputy Brendan Smith outlined.

I will not comment on industrial action. It probably strays well beyond the question. I note that there is industrial action. I note it is very important that people all look after their workforce but it is a matter outside my remit as Taoiseach in this jurisdiction.

On Deputy Cathal Crowe's point around Phoenix House, I will raise that with the Minister for integration. I need to be honest with people that as we are seeing the number of Ukrainian people in State accommodation reduce, we are reducing our footprint in terms of the amount of accommodation that we are leasing because there is a significant cost to the taxpayer here. I will raise this issue specifically, and the concerns raised to the Deputy Crowe and Councillor Griffin with regard to Phoenix House as well.

PBP Richard Boyd Barrett

What of the junior doctors?

FG Simon Harris

I said I do not think I can address that.

CC Cormac Devlin

The Taoiseach addressed that point. It was one line and the Deputy missed it.

FG Simon Harris

On the junior doctors, for clarity, I said that while it is important we all support people working in our public health service, it is not appropriate for me to comment specifically on industrial action. I would not appreciate it if people in other Executives commented on industrial relations matters in this jurisdiction.

Middle East

Q9 SF Ruairí Ó Murchú to the Taoiseach

9. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach if he will report on any recent discussions he has had with other world leaders in connection with the conflict in the Middle East. [23652/24]

Q10 PBP Bríd Smith to the Taoiseach

10. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [23879/24]

Q11 PBP Richard Boyd Barrett to the Taoiseach

11. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [23882/24]

Q12 PBP Paul Murphy to the Taoiseach

12. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [23885/24]

Q13 FF Seán Haughey to the Taoiseach

13. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [24764/24]

Q14 SF Mary Lou McDonald to the Taoiseach

14. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [25301/24]

Q15 PBP Mick Barry to the Taoiseach

15. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [25388/24]

Q16 FF Seán Haughey to the Taoiseach

16. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the President of Türkiye. [25606/24]

FG Simon Harris

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 to 16, inclusive, together.

I reported to the Dáil on 22 May regarding my recent discussions with international leaders on the situation in the Middle East. Since then, I have had calls with President Abbas of Palestine, with the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr. Shehbaz Sharif, and with President Erdoğan of Türkiye, following our recognition of the State of Palestine.

In my call with President Abbas, I informed him of the Government's decision to recognise the State of Palestine to keep the hopes of a two-state peace solution between Israel and Palestine alive. President Abbas, in thanking Ireland and the Irish people for that decision, told me that the decision was a beacon of hope to the Palestinian people and he thanked Ireland, Spain and Norway. He also underlined his position and that of the Palestinian Authority that Israel has the right to exist in peace and security with its neighbours. We also spoke about the need for a lasting ceasefire and an end to the unfolding humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.

In our call on 24 May, Pakistani Prime Minister Sharif welcomed Ireland's decision to recognise the State of Palestine. We also discussed the devastating situation in Gaza. We also exchanged views on bilateral relations and other global issues, including the situation in Ukraine and the forthcoming summit in Switzerland on peace in Ukraine.

I also discussed the situation in Gaza with Turkish President Erdoğan, as well as the wider implications of the conflict for the Middle Eastern region. President Erdoğan again thanked Ireland for its recognition of the State of Palestine, which he stated was important for providing momentum towards a two-state solution. We also discussed and reviewed Irish-Turkish bilateral relations.

I held a call with the President of Israel on 17 May. During my call with the President, I set out Ireland's position on the war in Gaza. I told the President that we expected to see an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and an urgent and massively scaled-up distribution of humanitarian aid. I also highlighted our deep concern about the ongoing humanitarian catastrophe. President Herzog conveyed Israel's concerns about Irish plans to recognise the State of Palestine.

SF Ruairí Ó Murchú

This House has heard previously that Israel behaves as it does because history has taught it that it can act with absolute impunity. For more than 76 years, it has displaced, occupied, annexed, imprisoned and murdered men, women and children, individually and by the dozens, hundreds, thousands and now tens of thousands.

It is welcome that Ireland formally recognised the State of Palestine earlier this month alongside other states. I understand in advance of that, on a phone call with the Israeli President, the Taoiseach expressed concern about the potential for catastrophe in Rafah. Israel does what it does because it feels that it can act with impunity. When the Taoiseach expressed concern about a potential catastrophe arising from the actions of the Israeli Government and its military, what did the Taoiseach tell him would be the consequences of his Government willingly bringing about that catastrophe?

We know what needs to be done as regards divestment. As I said previously, whether it is through my party's Bill or another means, we need to go further. We know the issues there are with the EU-Israel association agreement but we need to see movement beyond what has happened.

PBP Richard Boyd Barrett

This evening, Mothers Against Genocide will hold a protest outside Government Buildings. I am sure they would be glad if the Taoiseach went out to talk to them. The particular focus of their protest this evening is these enormous dumb bombs that are being used by Israel in Gaza to blow the place to bits and have been provided by the United States. The protest will highlight the outrageous complicity of western Governments with the Israeli military machine that is committing genocide and using weapons utterly indiscriminately. Tonight's protest will seek to highlight how if a similar bomb was used on Kildare Street, it would blow the whole of Kildare Street and the Houses of the Oireachtas away and people would be hit with fragments of that bomb as far away as Grafton Street.

What it also highlights is a more general involvement, including on the part of this Government, where we continue to do business with a state that is committing these crimes. I have been reading reports recently about the fact that we have purchased millions of euro worth of drones, and provide money for the maintenance of these drones, and other military equipment from Elbit Systems and Aeronautics Defense Systems, both of which are Israeli companies deeply implicated in the military hardware used to kill Palestinians.

PBP Paul Murphy

I ask the Taoiseach to condemn in the strongest possible terms the massacre and slaughter of civilians at the Nuseirat refugee camp in Gaza. Under the guise of rescuing hostages, of whom four were rescued but another three killed, almost 300 people were killed. It seems clear that war crimes were committed here, including the war crime of perfidy. Soldiers hiding in a supposedly humanitarian truck is obviously a war crime precisely because it places other humanitarian aid workers in danger as it gives rise to the thought that they could be forces from an opposing side.

The UN special rapporteur of the occupied Palestinian territories said Israeli forces were, "perfidiously hiding in an aid truck", and "This is 'humanitarian camouflage' at another level." It appears that US forces were directly involved with the IDF, which reported that "the US hostage cell played a decisive role in freeing the hostages". It appears at least likely that this port, supposedly built to bring humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, was used in some way in this massacre. It needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms.

CC Cormac Devlin

Deputy Haughey has two questions in this grouping. Will he take them together?

FF Seán Haughey

Yes. According to the Gaza Health Ministry, more than 37,100 Palestinians have been killed since the beginning of the war between Israel and Hamas on 7 October. On that day, 1,200 Israelis were killed in the Hamas attacks. Meanwhile the Israeli offensive on Gaza continues unabated. The Israeli operation in the past few days to free four of the hostages resulted in the death and injury of hundreds of Palestinians, including many women and children.

Ireland was one of the first countries in the EU to call for a humanitarian ceasefire to stop the madness. As we know, the US Administration has brought forward a three-phase ceasefire plan and this has now been adopted by the UN Security Council. What is the Taoiseach's understanding of this ceasefire plan? What is the Irish position in this regard? Are Israel and Hamas likely to support it? Are there grounds for hope that this terrible war is coming to an end?

My second question relates to the phone conversation with President Erdoğan of Türkiye. The European Commission published a joint communication on the current position concerning EU-Türkiye relations last November. Certainly, it is in the interests of the EU to have good relations with Türkiye, particularly as regards migration, for example.

During the Taoiseach's phone conversation, did he get the impression that Türkiye is serious about its EU application and is making the necessary reforms? President Erdoğan is a populist leader and has good relations with Russia. Where stands Türkiye's application to join the EU at this stage?

PBP Mick Barry

On 22 May, the Geneva International Peace Research Institute filed a complaint at the International Criminal Court against Ursula von der Leyen for complicity in war crimes and crimes against humanity. The complaint read:

Reasonable grounds exist to believe that the unconditional support of the President of the European Commission to Israel – ... economic, diplomatic and political – has enabled war crimes and the ongoing genocide in Gaza.

Ursula von der Leyen is currently the nominee of the European People's Party, EPP, for leadership of the new European Commission. Fine Gael is part of the EPP. Its new MEPs will all have a vote in this matter. Is the Taoiseach comfortable seeing Fine Gael's new MEPs lining up to vote for a woman who the International Criminal Court is now being asked to investigate for war crimes?

FG Simon Harris

We have to be very careful about that presentation by the Deputy. Somebody asking somebody to investigate somebody for something is a bit of a stretch. The President of the European Commission is not in any way, shape or form what the Deputy portrayed at all. It is important that we share the process with people in the country because there was a lot of misinformation around it during the European elections. The process for electing a President of the European Commission is as follows. The European Council will nominate a name to the European Parliament. I am a member of the European Council, which will nominate a person. We will begin our discussions on that in the coming days. It probably will not conclude until the end of the month or thereabouts. The name of the nominee will then go to the European Parliament, where there is then a ballot in favour or against the candidates based on their credentials. That is the process. The role of an MEP only begins when the member states of the European Union, through the European Council, agree on a name to put forward. That is the first thing.

President von der Leyen was put forward as the lead candidate for the party that has won the most votes and seats in the European Parliament. Democracy does matter. Often, our citizens feel there is democratic deficit between institutions. President von der Leyen was put forward as the lead candidate, not just in Ireland. I am not talking about Ireland specifically; right across the European Union the EPP won the most seats in the European Parliament. That is where the situation currently stands. The process is that the European Council will now consider what are called the top posts, or the four jobs, which are the foreign representative, the President of the Commission, the President of the Parliament and the President of the Council. A variety of institutions will consider those posts in the days and weeks ahead.

I read a statement to the House and spoke to the President of Israel after that. We had a firm conversation where we shared our views. We obviously have a very different view from Israel's. I conveyed very clearly the Irish view. I made the point that Israel isolating itself from the world is not a good position for Israel to be in. It is not a good position at all. We need to see a ceasefire. To the specific question on where the ceasefire plan stands, which was raised by a few Deputies, there are reasons for optimism. I note the comments of Hamas today and the work of the Egyptian Government that is going on in that regard. The Government, the Tánaiste and I have called for an acceptance of that ceasefire. We did that because while there is no such thing as a perfect plan, this plan stops the violence, killing and war crimes. It allows a situation where process and dialogue can be brought about. That is the way conflict is resolved.

On Deputy Murphy's point, I condemn what he outlined the strongest possible terms, as any right-thinking person might. I want to see all the hostages released unconditionally, as I presume everyone in the House does. Everybody wants to see the hostages released unconditionally but the constant targeting of civilians, including children, is utterly horrific. There has to be accountability for any potential war crimes that have been committed. It is not for me, on the floor of the Dáil, to decide who has or has not committed a war crime. The structures to do that are clear and are there through the International Court of Justice. Ireland fully supports the work of the court. The most important thing that should happen now is a cessation of the violence. This has to include an immediate ceasefire, unhindered and unimpeded access to humanitarian aid and the unconditional release of all the hostages. I met the soon-to-be Palestinian ambassador last week. It was the first time a Palestinian ambassador had been in the Taoiseach's office, which, again, is a statement on what recognition means. She outlined to me in the most horrifying terms the scale of the humanitarian catastrophe. The world does not yet fully comprehend, despite what we see on our TV screens, how horrific the humanitarian situation is.

On my conversation with the President of Türkiye, I believe he and his Government want to see closer relations with the European Union. As the Deputy rightly said, any membership of the European Union has to be based on criteria. That involves countries undertaking a programme of reform. Where it stands now is with the April conclusions of the European Council, where we agreed to ask teams to engage with and recommence discussions with Türkiye. That is an important step. Türkiye has played an important role in grain agreements and so on to keep food supplies flowing through Ukraine. It is absolutely in the European Union's interest to have a good close relationship with Türkiye. If a country wishes to become a member of the European Union, it involves that country carrying out significant reforms. However, my conversation with President Erdoğan was largely around the situation in the Middle East.

Departmental Programmes

Q17 FF Christopher O'Sullivan to the Taoiseach

17. Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme 2024 published by his Department on 10 May last. [23896/24]

Q18 PBP Richard Boyd Barrett to the Taoiseach

18. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach to report on the recently published national reform programme 2024. [23996/24]

Q19 PBP Bríd Smith to the Taoiseach

19. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach to report on the recently published national reform programme 2024. [23999/24]

Q20 PBP Paul Murphy to the Taoiseach

20. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach to report on the recently published national reform programme 2024. [24001/24]

Q21 PBP Mick Barry to the Taoiseach

21. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme 2024 published by his Department on 10 May 2024. [25389/24]

Q22 SD Cian O'Callaghan to the Taoiseach

22. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme 2024 published by his Department on 10 May 2024. [25444/24]

CC Cormac Devlin

I ask Members to note the remaining time for this slot. We have a little more than 13 minutes. I ask them to keep to a minute apiece to give time to the Taoiseach to respond.

FG Simon Harris

I propose to take Questions Nos. 17 to 22, inclusive, together.

Ireland submitted its 2024 national reform programme, NRP, to the European Commission on 30 April. The NRP was subsequently also laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas and published. The NRP is an element of the European semester, the annual cycle of economic and social policy co-ordination among EU member states. As part of the semester, Ireland, along with other member states, has been required to prepare and submit an NRP to the European Commission each year.

The NRP provides an overview of economic reforms and policy actions under way in Ireland, including responses to country-specific recommendations received from the Commission. Since 2022, the NRP also reports on implementation of the recovery and resilience facility, RFF. Thematic issues addressed in Ireland’s 2024 NRP include climate action and the environment; housing; the digital transition; supporting participation in the labour market; supporting enterprise; promoting balanced, fair and inclusive development; and planning for the future and long-term fiscal sustainability. Development of the NRP was co-ordinated by the Department of the Taoiseach, with input from relevant Departments and agencies. It drew on Government strategies such as the national development plan, Housing for All, and the climate action plan. During the NRP's preparation, stakeholders were also invited to make submissions.

In April this year, reforms to the EU economic governance framework came into force. The reforms aim to strengthen debt sustainability and enhance sustainable and inclusive economic growth through investment and reform. Under the new framework, Ireland will need to commit to a five-year plan setting out a path for net expenditure and including information on investments and reforms relating to the European semester and the EU’s common priorities. As part of the new framework, Ireland will be required to submit an annual progress report, which will in effect replace the current NRP process. As such, this year’s NRP is the last that Ireland will be required to submit.

PBP Richard Boyd Barrett

Among other things, the NRP addresses the housing crisis and challenges relating to housing. I again draw the Taoiseach's attention to a particular aspect of the housing crisis, namely people who are working, earning money, paying tax and contributing to our society who find themselves driven over the thresholds for social housing. Those thresholds are so low those people are losing their ten or 15 years on the housing list. When they start earning a few quid over the threshold, those years are all gone.

However, because their earnings are just over the threshold, they are not enough to pay the rents out there or even to access some of the cost-rental programmes, if they could get a cost-rental property. We have to do something. I have highlighted the case of a woman and her husband who were on HAP and are facing homelessness. If they end up homeless, they will lose even their entitlement to HAP. That makes no sense. If you are in a council house, which people should have, you do not lose it if you earn more. Rather, your rent is adjusted. However, ironically, if you end up homeless, you lose everything. You are completely trapped. We have to do something about this. It is just not fair. It is punishing people who are working, contributing and trying to make an effort. The thresholds themselves are a problem. There are issues with the income thresholds for some of the cost-rental developments. You can be eligible on one ground but not eligible because your income is too low for the rents, even if you can get a cost-rental property. This issue has to be addressed for working people.

PBP Paul Murphy

Also on the issue of housing, I am not sure if the Taoiseach saw it but there was a Central Bank report yesterday that projected that more than one quarter of Dublin office space could be vacant over the next two years. This is a potential game-changer as regards the housing crisis. The accommodation in question is a significant untapped resource. Total office space in Dublin was estimated at 3.9 million sq. m back in 2020. A quarter of that is enough space for more than 20,000 apartments in Dublin. We know it can be done. It is being done in a certain way now in that office buildings are being repurposed for accommodation for international protection applicants. It is obviously quite overcrowded and not suitable for people to live in for the long term but it shows that commercial buildings can be converted for residential use. If we had a left government that was willing, we could take these vacant office buildings into public ownership and convert them into social and affordable housing.

It also makes sense from a climate perspective. Emissions from converting existing built buildings into housing will be much lower than those from building housing from scratch. Offices also tend to be in much more central locations with good access to transport and so on rather than in the greenfield locations used for new housing estates. Instead of chasing refugees up and down the canal, the Taoiseach should use some of that energy of his to go after vacant offices around the city to use them for housing.

CC Cormac Devlin

I know we are dealing with questions to the Taoiseach but Deputy Barry, who is next, might inform the House what happened to his finger. That is a pretty big bandage he is sporting. I know postering is dangerous but-----

PBP Mick Barry

Do I get an extra 30 seconds to explain? All I will say is that you should be very careful when dealing with sash windows. The Irish Examiner reviewed the Cork city north-west ward on May 31 and included in its report the line "Big issues also include housing and rents, and - surprisingly in a modern city - delivery of clean tap water." It certainly proved to be an issue in the election. It came up at door after door. There was the man who had to lift his ten-year-old boy up to the sink to wash him with bottled water because he could not let him use the shower. There was the woman who said her water supply was so dirty and so discoloured that she would not give it to her dog and was now buying bottled water for one husband, three kids and one family dog. On 15 April, nearly two full months ago, the Tánaiste told Uisce Éireann he wanted to see a timeline for sorting this issue out. To my knowledge, no such timeline has been announced. Perhaps it is time for the Taoiseach to travel to Cork to meet Uisce Éireann because this cannot keep going the way it is going.

SF Ruairí Ó Murchú

We all welcome the Narrow Water bridge project. We need to ensure it is built on time and on budget. I know Antóin Watters and Fiona Mhic Conchoille would also be very supportive of that. We have to prepare in every way to lessen the impact of the Border. We have to prepare for the eventual stage of there being no Border, which would deal with an awful lot of issues. I was at an event with Dundalk Chamber of Commerce earlier. It was a breakfast briefing session on tax implications for cross-Border workers and employers. Rose Tierney, the tax consultant, spoke at it. It covered issues related to remote working, which is not entirely possible for cross-Border workers unless their employers are willing to operate a dual system, setting themselves up in this jurisdiction for tax purposes, which is not always possible. There are very significant issues in respect of social insurance, benefits, pension lump sums, redundancy payments and many other issues. Now that we have the Northern Executive up and running, there should be Government engagement with the latter, particularly with the Minister for Finance, Caoimhe Archibald, and Minister for the Economy, Conor Murphy. After the election in Britain, more engagement on some sort of bilateral agreement to deal with these particular issues may be possible. They are absolutely vital, particularly for those who live in the Border area.

FG Simon Harris

I will start with that point. I will certainly ensure there is continued engagement with the Northern Ireland Executive. Members of our Government have already had bilateral meetings with the Ministers, Conor Murphy and Caoimhe Archibald. We will continue that engagement.

We also want to see the Narrow Water bridge come in on time and on budget. Louth County Council is overseeing that process. I particularly commend the chief executive, who has put her shoulder to the wheel over a very long period to deliver this project. I look forward to seeing it finally delivered.

On the clean water issue, which Deputy Barry raises with me on a very regular basis, the points he makes are real, valid and worrying for people. I will personally ask Uisce Éireann's chief executive for a timeline in that regard and will personally come back to the Deputy on the matter. I can only imagine the frustration of his constituents in the situations he has outlined. Arising from our previous engagements in the House, I have raised the matter but I will personally ask for a timeline and seek an update from the Tánaiste before coming back to the Deputy.

To respond to Deputy Murphy, I have not yet read the Central Bank report on the issue of vacant office space but I will now that he has brought it to my attention. We are in the business of trying to see how vacant office space can be repurposed for IPAS and the likes, where appropriate. There are some examples of that already. I will be very clear on the position on tents. The only rationale behind our removal of tents - I do not like using that phrase and should perhaps say "removing people from tents" - is to move them to safer accommodation with better sanitation and humanitarian situations than they are now encountering.

PBP Paul Murphy

They were moved yesterday with nowhere to go.

FG Simon Harris

I have checked that out and have been informed that is not the case. I am continuing to seek full information. I also had a multiagency meeting on the issue yesterday and my understanding is that there is currently a small amount of spare capacity in some of the facilities. To be very honest, the big thing we are working on in the short term is bringing a State-owned site that has been much discussed into use. At that site, we will be able to provide a decent form of shelter and sanitation while moving towards the comprehensive accommodation strategy the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, is working on. The point the Deputy makes about what to do with much of the vacant office space that may build up around our city is valid. I will give the matter some consideration.

To respond to Deputy Boyd Barrett's question on thresholds, I make the point that we recently reviewed and increased the thresholds, although that has not necessarily addressed the issues he is raising. We do not need poverty traps whereby people are doing their best to get by and find that, by doing that, they fall out. I will talk to the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, again to see if there is any ability to further increase the thresholds and what his plans are in that regard.