I thank the Minister of State for being here this afternoon and showing her commitment by taking this Commencement matter. I also thank the Cathaoirleach for selecting it.

The question relates to the development of an equine therapy centre on the Toghermore House site. When we talk about equine therapy and children with additional needs, it is important to realise the value it provides as a form of respite and regulation. That is what we have heard through the horse boy method. When one looks around at what good looks like, one can look to Liskennett Farm, which is part of the Saint Joseph's Foundation, on the Cork-Limerick border. It is phenomenal. We can also look to the developments taking place at Kanturk and what has been developed in Kilcloon, under Stewarts Care.

The Toghermore House site was becoming vacant two years ago. The site is slightly more 40 acres. As the Minster of State will be aware, there was a lot of conversation at home in Galway about what would happen with that site. That site was gifted to the people of Tuam to ensure it would remain available to them and those who are more vulnerable, be that disabilities or mental health supports. At that time a meeting was convened with a lot of stakeholders, including the HSE. It is important to acknowledge the work of John Fitzmaurice and Mary O'Halloran, Joe Hoare and Gráinne Cahill at HSE estates, along with the other stakeholders in the town.

There are more than just disabilities that are marginalised in Tuam. There are women in sport who are marginalised in Tuam, where they do not have their own pitches. They are continuously at the begging bowl locally. Also, Tuam Athletics Club does not have its own venue, nor does High Cross secondary school. There is a collection within the site. Could we develop the site to be disability-led and disability focused, which would make it the first of its type in the country? For example, the playing pitches could be marked and maintained by people with additional needs, creating employment opportunities. Working with Pierce O'Callaghan, the upkeep of the running track could create employment opportunities.

The Toghermore site is more than a site. It is one of the most beautiful places around. Rupert Isaacson from the Horse Boy Foundation visited it recently and said if it were to be approved, it would probably be the best designated site to deliver equine therapy in the British Isles. That is what we are looking at. There is also the opportunity for creating employment in the old units with a coffee shop, etc. As the Minister of State knows, when the HSE speaks to a project it will say the revenue spend needs to be acquired before the HSE can do the capital appraisals on it. I am hoping the Minister of State will bring the news and clarity that the revenue spend sought under the last budget is still secured and ring-fenced, and that the doubting Thomases will hear there will be funding for a regional equine centre to be developed in Tuam. Then we can talk about the tender process. We do need a regional equine centre. The other ones I mentioned are in Cork or Meath. We have nothing west of the Shannon. We have nothing in REO 1. We have nothing for children and equine disability progression. I look forward to the Minister of State's reply.

I thank Senator Rabbitte for raising this issue and offering me the opportunity to respond. The Government is fully committed to supporting efforts to ensure the necessary supports for people with disabilities, along with their families, and to ensuring they are provided in a timely manner, not just in our home county of Galway but right across the country. As the Senator is aware, the Toghermore site in Tuam, which is owned and operated by the HSE, is currently under review by the HSE under a direction issued in May 2024 by the Senator herself in her capacity as the then Minister of State with responsibility for disability. The review is examining the current use of the campus which will inform future health planning needs and what the campus may be required for. HSE officials have advised me they are engaging with the relevant stakeholders, including Galway County Council, on this matter. A meeting was held with the HSE and Galway County Council on 4 June last and a follow-up meeting is provisionally scheduled for this September, where an update will be provided to the local authority. Pending the outcome of this review, the HSE continues to utilise the facilities on the grounds at Toghermore House for a number of services, including the national counselling service, mental health services, quality and risk, paediatric outpatient, HR and administration support. The HSE officials have confirmed to me that the HSE has not made a final decision on the use of the lands at present.

I am aware that the development of a national equine assisted therapy centre at the site has been proposed. Any capital project is required to go through the normal capital approvals as per HSE processes and in line with the national infrastructure guidelines. My understanding is that Toghermore is at the very early stages of this process and a formal capital submission has not been made to HSE capital and estates. When that submission is made, it will be considered for approval and subsequent inclusion in the list of capital projects being progressed under the capital plan.

I firmly believe it is important for the people of Galway that this review is done properly and promptly to ensure that we can provide the best possible services to the people of the area, now and into the future.

I thank the Minister of State. In the one minute allocated to me and her response, I would like to know that the €650,000 funding secured in last year's budget has been ring-fenced for the revenue spend and staff development piece related to the equine therapy development at the Toghermore regional campus. That would also cover Mayo and Roscommon. That €650,000 funding fell under respite and there is an annual spend of €1.3 million. It is very important clarity is brought to that.

The second part relates to HSE estates. They clearly engaged in good faith, as did I, that this funding for revenue would be the pathway for HSE estates to ensure this. That is why there was a tender document done at the time so providers could show an expression of interest, of which two applied. It is time the HSE made a decision as to who it is awarding the tender to and in order that a project development manager can be assigned to whoever holds the lead tender.

I thank the Senator again for raising this issue. I am keen to ensure all opportunities are explored in regard to the Toghermore campus and that the services are provided for the benefit of the locals and the surrounding communities. I reiterate this Government's commitment to delivering real and tangible solutions to enhance services and to better support the needs of adults and children with additional needs in Ireland as outlined in the commitments contained in our programme for Government.

We have made significant funding commitments which has seen an overall HSE disability budget increase in 2025, which is a growth of €3.2 billion. That equates to an 11.5% increase on the previous year. I look forward to hearing from the HSE on the outcome of that feasibility review as soon as it is completed and we will seek support then for the introduction of services to this location. I look forward to working with the Senator on that.

Will the Acting Leader move the suspension of proceedings until after the vote in the Dáil?

I move that the House stand suspended until after the vote.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit as bheith anseo chun déileáil leis an Commencement matter. From his own area, I am sure the Minister of State will be well familiar with the BAM project, an initiative that was introduced for financing school developments. It began in 2012 and was modelled largely on the UK's private finance initiative, PFI, which was begun in 1992 under John Major's Government and whose use was expanded significantly by the Blair Government. Just as the system in Ireland was being rolled out in 2012, it was rapidly falling out of favour in the UK. It was proving to be spectacularly successful as a device for providing schools and hospitals on the never-never, é sin ráite, le hualach mór úis lódáilte suas air agus gan a bheith ar na balance sheets. In 2018, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer in the UK, Philip Hammond, announced to the Parliament that he was giving the whole initiative the boot, while we were ag cur an córas sin faoi lánsheol, or running up the mainsail, on PPP, as we call it here.

As is widely known, communities and Governments here have been locked into the model for a quarter of a century, which, coincidentally, is the length of time it took the UK to tumble to the absolutely profligacy of the rules. In case the Minister of State is in any doubt, he should note that BAM has sold out the project to PGGM, a Dutch pension fund, so he can be confidently assured that its bottom line is truly its bottom line.

In bundle three which is under consideration today, I want to instance Merlin College, located in Doughiska in Galway city, a school with a fine profile and very progressive outcomes, I am told. However, it needs a new disability classroom facility and was advised, through the board of management, of a ballpark estimate. It was, alas, informed by BAM that the extension could only be provided by BAM but at a figure that was roughly five times the estimate that was given independently to the board of management. My difficulty here is obvious. Why are our taxpayers being systematically ripped off in order to fatten Dutch pension funds with usurious dividends? In the last analysis, and most importantly, does that system do anything positive to speed up the delivery of the facility so badly needed in Coláiste Merlin? It is urgently sought and I would love to hear what the Minister of State thinks, in his heart of hearts.

This Government is fully committed to supporting children with special educational needs to fulfil their potential and the programme for Government makes a number of commitments to deliver on this objective. The National Council for Special Education, NCSE, has responsibility for co-ordinating and advising on the education provision for children with special educational needs. The NCSE gives consideration to information it holds at local level on the number of children seeking a special school place in a region. Where classes have been sanctioned based on local demand, a number of new measures were introduced this year to support schools to access capital funding for reconfiguration. This includes the automatic payment of €30,000 for each new class sanctioned requiring minor building works, the up to €70,000 that is available for small-scale repurposing, and the wider capital programme that can be accessed for larger projects.

Since 2020, the Department of Education and Youth has invested in excess of €6 billion in our schools throughout the country under the national development plan, NDP, involving the completion of more than 1,375 school building projects. Government support for this investment, including by way of supplementary capital funding, has delivered real benefits for school communities. A recent Government decision has approved €210 million in supplementary capital funding for the Department which brings the total capital allocation for the Department in 2025 to €1.6 billion. As part of the NDP review process, all Departments, including the Department of Education and Youth, are currently engaging with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Sector Reform and Digitalisation with respect to NDP allocations for the period 2026 to 2030. It is expected that there will be clarity on these allocations over the course of the summer period, and this will allow the Department to plan its capital investment programme for the 2026 to 2030 period in line with prioritised needs and reflecting, as appropriate, wider Government priorities.

Schools built under the public-private partnership, PPP model, which includes some Invesis -formerly BAM - schools, apply for special education accommodation through the same process as traditional schools. When the NCSE identifies a need for SEN accommodation, the school management applies to the Department for approval. The schools are licensed by way of agreement to a PPP company for the operation of the school. The proposed extension would be tendered and delivered, subject to departmental approval of costs, through the PPP company, in consultation with the school.

Even though it is over 50 years old, I am sure the Minister of State is well aware of legislation that was enacted in 1972 called the Restrictive Practices Act. I draw particular attention to the Third Schedule, which reads:

Any measures, rules, agreements or acts, whether put into effect (or intended to be put into effect) by a person alone, in combination or agreement (express or implied) with others or through a merger, trust, cartel, monopoly or other means or device whatsoever, which—

[...]

(d) unjustly enhance prices of goods or charges for services or promote unfairly at the expense of the public the advantage of suppliers or distributors of goods or of persons providing services.

I thank the Minister of State but, unfortunately, just restating the Government stance is not addressing the issue. The issue is that, as taxpayers and as a country, we are getting shockingly bad value from BAM and it is unlikely to change. The fact of the matter is that no latitude has been given to management and they have to suck it up. That is terrible for the Minister of State, for me and for the people who are paying the taxes.

The Department works closely with the NCSE on the forward planning of new special classes and additional special school places. The need for special education provision is identified with consideration to the statistical data and in regard to any area’s existing school provision and future capability. In addition, part of the process looks at how far students are travelling to access an education appropriate to their needs. This is an important factor that has been incorporated into the decision-making process. I also assure the Senator that the Department will continue to support the NCSE and schools to ensure that all children are successful in accessing an education.

On the wider aspect, everybody can see how genuine the Senator’s concerns are and how heartfelt his views and opinions are. I am sure every one of us will be thinking along the lines of what he has said and trying to take that into consideration.

I am raising this issue today for the first time in this House but it is not my first time to raise it as a public representative. During my time on South Dublin County Council, I highlighted my concerns in regard to this issue. I was prompted to raise the issue as I was contacted many times by people who were deeply torn when they received an offer of housing as it was under the condition that they could not bring their pet. One of my last motions as a councillor proposed that South Dublin County Council engage with AHBs regarding no-pet policies when allocating housing. Pets are an integral part of the family and people should not be faced with the decision to surrender them or refuse an offer.

I was advised at the time that the council had previously engaged with approved housing bodies regarding no-pet policies. This policy is in place often at the request of a management company in a multi-unit development. Some of the reasons that pets are refused include inadequate space to hold a pet, the possibility of a pet becoming a noise nuisance to neighbours and damage to the property. Exceptions to this can be made in the case of tenants with a disability that requires an assistance or guide dog. I was told that the council will always advise prospective tenants whether pets are permitted in a property to enable applicants to make an informed decision.

The issue is not whether tenants are being notified of the no-pet policies; it is that they have to make the decision at all. Owning a pet is a natural part of the life cycle for many people. Over half of Irish households have pets, with 28% owning only a dog and 12% a cat. A pet provides companionship and emotional support and is a valued family member. We saw this during the pandemic as one in five pet owners acquired a pet during the pandemic. Over 85% of pet owners report the positive effect on their mental health and well-being, underscoring the significant role that pets play in emotional support. For those living alone, children with special needs, the elderly and families in general, pets provide comfort, connection and structure.

Despite this, only 7% of rental properties listed on Daft allow pets, making it exceedingly difficult for pet owners to find suitable housing. Dogs Trust reported a 112% increase in the number of people needing to give up their dogs due to housing restrictions over the past five years and, in 2024 alone, it received an average of 431 calls and emails daily from individuals facing this dilemma. While there is a need for certain restrictions, it is imperative that we revise and review policies to develop guidelines that balance the needs of tenants with the welfare of the community.

There must be fair, clear, concise and consistent rules across local authorities and housing bodies. With that being said, there should be room for reasonable flexibility and exceptions, particularly for responsible pet owners with suitable housing. Above all, we must ensure individuals are not forced to choose between their pets and a home. It certainly should not be a management company that is calling the shots on this. Pets are not just mere animals; they are parts of a family who provide companionship, love and support. By reconsidering restrictive pet policies, we can create a more inclusive housing system that recognises the importance of pets in the lives of many tenants.

I thank the Senator for bringing before the Seanad this important matter regarding pet policy in approved housing body accommodation, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne.

Approved housing bodies are independent, not-for-profit organisations providing affordable rented housing for people who cannot provide housing from their own means, and for particular groups such as older people or homeless people. AHBs also include housing co-operatives, which are housing organisations controlled by their members or tenants who actively participate in setting their policies and making decisions. We are not aware of any sector-wide policy that precludes AHB tenants from keeping pets and a number of AHBs have published pet policy documents, which provide guidance for tenants seeking to keep pets. The residential tenancies Acts from 2004 to 2022 regulate the landlord-tenant relationship in the residential rental sector and set out the rights and obligations of landlords and tenants. The Acts apply to every dwelling that is the subject of a tenancy, with a limited number of exceptions. Dwellings covered by the Acts include the private rental sector, the cost-rental sector, the approved housing body sector and student accommodation, including tenancies and licences in student-specific accommodation. The Acts make no reference to animals and it would be inappropriate for them to prescribe matters relating to the keeping of pets. As such, there is nothing in legislation that prevents AHB tenants from keeping pets. That is a very important point for the Senator.

Although the value to individual tenants of keeping pets is recognised, it is also important to acknowledge the challenges that may exist for both other tenants and individual landlords or property owners. Not all residents, particularly in multi-unit developments, would be comfortable with the presence of pets, and their needs should also be considered. However, as independent property owners, it is a matter for the sector and the individual AHBs themselves to formulate their own house rules on this policy. Tenants of AHBs are encouraged to engage with the relevant AHBs and the AHB representative association, the Irish Council for Social Housing, regarding pet policies. It would not be appropriate for the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to set out tenancy policies of individual AHBs and their property rules.

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I understand the Minister's position on this. I am coming at it from the point of view whereby I have had people bringing the cutest little dogs into my clinic while crying at the thought of having to decide whether they should give up this little dog that has provided them with love and kindness for seven or eight years or take a roof over their head. What really sickened me in the response I got was that it was a management company calling the shots. If it was coming from the AHB directly, I would probably have a bit more respect for the stance. It caught in my throat when the finger was pointed that way. They would be better placed to be more answerable to the AHB on matters such as that. I appreciate there is nothing in legislation preventing tenants from keeping pets, so I will have a look into that further. I have noticed on the South Dublin County Council website a huge number of houses and properties available under the choice based letting scheme, which is welcome, but unfortunately, a lot of them referred to a no-pet policy, which made my heart sink a bit. I thank the Minister of State for his response. I appreciate it.

I again thank the Senator. Sometimes you would not realise who you will be talking to personally about a thing like this. I am a big follower of dogs, in particular. I really like dogs and I like meeting dogs. I thank the Senator for raising this very important issue.

I am replying on behalf of the Minister, Deputy James Browne, as I mentioned. It is important for the views of all stakeholders to be considered. While the distress that pet owners find themselves in when searching for appropriate accommodation for themselves and their pets in both private and social housing settings is understood, the needs and concerns of landlords and other tenants must also be considered. As there already exists strong legislation to protect tenants and property owners, it would not be appropriate for the Minister to direct individual property owners as to what a tenancy policy should be. I suggest open and productive dialogue between the property owners, the tenants and their representative associations, regardless of the tenure type, on this issue. I believe that a reasonable and fair compromise can be found that will support pet ownership and meet the needs of other stakeholders, neighbours and landlords.

We have to work with individual cases in individual situations. The majority of people love animals - they love their pets. Of course, we have to weigh that against the whole issue that it is hard for a person to say, in the current climate, that they cannot take an available house because they cannot take their pet. People would be thinking the person was negligent towards themselves and their family if they were more worried about the pet. Only people who do not have a fondness for animals might not understand it, but other people would.

I again thank the Senator for raising this very important issue.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, to the Chamber. I ask that speakers be as brief as possible in their contributions because we will need to stop at 3.30 p.m. for the Order of Business. My apologies. It is the impact of the vote in the Dáil.

Does Senator Nelson Murray wish to proceed? I apologise; we need to proceed as the Minister of State is here.

Will I be able to get an answer?

I thank the Minister of State for coming in. I wish to raise the issue of apprenticeships in the furniture industry. Some say that the great wind of 1839 was the start of the furniture industry in Navan, County Meath. The big wind occurred on the afternoon of 6 January and swept across Europe, causing major damage and resulting in several hundred deaths. We had a plentiful supply of trees, the tools were there on the ground and we were ready to go. Fast forward to the 1960s and 1990s, and furniture in Navan was huge. Upholsterers and cabinet-makers were members of almost every family, with 70 to 100 furniture-makers in the town. Navan is only an hour from Dublin, as everyone knows, so people came in their droves to buy furniture. My dad was one of those manufacturers.

The apprentices of the fifties became the factory owners of the sixties, and the cycle repeated itself. At one stage, out of a population of 6,500 in Navan, 1,000 to 1,200 people were employed in the furniture industry. In fact, furniture was so big in Navan that each year we had a massive trade show, where manufacturers came together to showcase their stunning pieces.

These days, there are probably ten to 15 places still manufacturing, which is a far cry from the glory days. It is not just a trend in Navan, it is across the whole country. We see thousands of imports, including flatpack, particularly from Asia, coming into the country.

It is very hard to get your favourite suite re-upholstered. Years ago, people invested in a suite and got it re-upholstered but, sadly, we do not see much of that anymore. It is a dying trade, which is unfortunate. We all have to admit that nothing is as nice as getting furniture made locally. Upholstery is not just about having your suite made. It is about upholstering bar stools and restaurant furniture. It is specific furniture for bowling alleys. It is the seats people sit on in aeroplanes. It is the upholstery used in caravans and mobile homes. It is a skill for boats and ships.

We had this skill in Ireland but we are losing people in this industry because we do not have a specific apprenticeship scheme. I have been told by manufacturers that in the next ten to 12 years this trade will be completely lost. The Minister of State will be hard-pressed to find an upholsterer now who is not out the door busy. The average age of people in this industry is 50 to 70 years. If we do not act now, the skill will be gone. We will end up having to import even more furniture.

We know only too well in government how far we have come with the excellent programme of apprenticeships we have now. We know of the choices young people have when it comes to what they can do after they leave school.

We have 66 apprenticeship programmes currently and none of them are offering furniture upholstery, polishing, cutting, seamstress or frame making. When my dad was 12 he went straight into an upholstery apprenticeship for four years and was a highly skilled and valued worker in the 1950s. He was in such high demand. My dad could look at any suite and know exactly how to make that suite, go back to his bench, take down a roll of cloth and cut it without any templates. There are many reasons we stopped programmes like this, including imports coming in, but another reason was that the environments many people worked in were not up to the standards they are now. There was no proper programme. I spoke to another manufacturer this morning in light of this. He has taken on two apprentices whom he will train in his way. Imagine if he was supported to do this. Imagine if those people were taught the educational side as well as the practical side. I looked up a similar programme in the UK that states:

The broad purpose of the occupation is to produce upholstered furniture by preparing and cutting fabrics, creating/repairing frames and joints, selecting and applying suspensions and upholstering frames ... In their daily work, an employee in this occupation interacts with a range of colleagues including production/manufacturing managers, quality technicians, production leaders, designers and product developers.

I am thinking of a furniture craft course, one for upholstery, maybe one for sewing, and one for frame making. It would have to start small but I truly believe this could be something that would ensure we do not lose this skill in our towns and villages.

I thank Senator Nelson Murray for her question on this important issue for my Department. I thank the Senator for what she said about furniture making in Navan. People of my generation are very aware of how important that was and still is.

To answer the Senator's question, under our action plan for apprenticeships 2021 to 2025 a key objective is to ensure that apprenticeships will be recognised and valued by employers all across the economy. It is great to hear of the furniture industry's interest in being part of a new apprenticeship programme. While there is not currently a specific upholstery and furniture making apprenticeship, the existing wood manufacturing and finishing apprenticeship offered by six different education providers, including the Louth-Meath Education and Training Board, trains apprentices on skills that are relevant to many aspects of furniture design and manufacture. Qualified apprentices from the wood manufacturing and finishing programme can cut, shape and join wood and wood-based products using woodworking machines, power tools and hand tools and can manufacture household furniture items including chairs, table and doors. There are 411 apprentices on this programme nationally. A major strength of the apprenticeship programme is the strong bond between industry, education and the training system. Working with the National Apprenticeship Office, NAO, which has responsibility for all aspects of the management, oversight and development of the apprenticeship system, industry sectors can develop and establish new apprenticeships that address critical skills needs.

If the furniture industry wishes to submit an application to establish a specific furniture making and upholstery apprenticeship, it can do this through the National Apprenticeship Office, following the ten-step process for setting up new programmes. The NAO is very open to proposals from industry sectors where there is an ongoing skills requirement and where the work-based approach is particularly suited to the apprenticeship model. The first step is to make the initial proposal setting out the evidence industry-wide to show where the skills needs are. That has to be evidenced by support from 15 to 20 employers. For the application to succeed, it has to be shown from the start that there is no significant curriculum overlaps of more than 50% with any existing programmes.

I am sorry to have to stop the Minister of State there. We have gone over time, unfortunately.

I thank the Minister of State.