I welcome and thank the Minister of State, Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan. He is coming from the Department.

In essence, this is quite a simple Commencement matter. The answer might be a bit more complex.

This relates to the imposition of commercial rates on childminders' homes. These are not necessarily crèches. These are small operations where a parent may have their own children and may take in a child or two on top of that to mind on an informal but regulated basis, in that it is a professional system.

The context of this relates to the Minister for children. By way of background, I will make some points.

Tailte Éireann indicated that, under the Valuation (Amendment) Act 2015, not-for-profit early childhood care facilities are exempt from rates but the for-profit ones may not be.

I commend the Minister for children, Deputy Foley, who has gone on record and responded when she stated that childminders should not be assessed for commercial rates of their homes. That Minister of the Government, who sits at the Cabinet table, is on the record and I congratulate her for that. I understand that the Ministers discussed this with the Minister for housing, Deputy Browne, emphasising the need for absolute clarity on this issue and that is my ask here today.

This issue relates to a commercial rates issue that arose on a childminder's home in Newbridge, County Kildare. It is not appropriate to mention the individual by name. I have not spoken to her and it would not be appropriate to raise her name in this public forum without having her consent.

This happened in County Kildare. There was a valuation of rates by Tailte Éireann, which manages property registration and valuations, as the Minister of State well knows. Indeed, we have talked about Tailte Éireann previously.

The Minister, Deputy Foley, to her credit, as I say, made the case that childminding in the family home should not incur rates unless there is a very significant modification to the building itself so it becomes a big commercial enterprise or there are substantial modifications that would undermine it in terms of being primarily residential - I think that is where the Minister was coming from.

There are significant discrepancies and inconsistencies across all of the 31 local authorities. I am not saying that is deliberate. I am saying in the absence of a clear understanding of what the law and the regulations are, this may need to be tightened up in terms of interpreting the regulations.

I am calling on the Minister of State to commit to seek greater clarity on the issue and the need for uniformity among the local authorities. Tailte Éireann has indicated that under the Valuation (Amendment) Act 2015, not-for-profit early childcare facilities are exempt from rates, but for-profit ones cannot be exempted. That is the clarity.

We all know that communities, particularly rural communities, are under pressure for childcare facilities. We know that many parents living in rural areas could have the capacity to mind one or two children in addition to their own, maybe up to preschool. It is a small enterprise that supplements the family income or farm income. We have to be flexible. We want to accommodate people once they are within the regulations and meet all the other standards.

My ask is for clarity and uniformity across the 31 local authorities in this regard. The stock answer will be that Tailte Éireann is exercising its own functions. Tailte Éireann is not fit for purpose, as I told the Minister of State previously. In my latest meeting with him, he raised a number of issues. Within days of having the Minister of State in the House on that occasion, I had margins of national press with regard to Tailte Éireann. We now know there are thousands upon thousands of issues and outstanding cases, but that is for another day. This is a simple measure. While I am not expecting the Minister of State to give me a commitment today, I hope that he will consider the merits of the case, which the Minister for children is also behind. Maybe we can seek to remedy the situation in due course.

I thank the Senator for raising this important issue. In recent years, the Government has made great inroads into reducing the cost of childcare. That is one of the key measures we have taken. As we know, childcare is still expensive, but we have certainly reduced that. A key issue that remains is the provision of childcare. There are some pockets of Ireland, in regional areas in particular, where options are not available. What we need to do is encourage more people to take on these types of initiatives.

In asking for clarity on this situation, the Senator rightly referenced the 2015 Act, which I will go into in detail shortly. What is straightforward and clear is that if it is a for-profit body or individual who is running the operation in the family home, they are subject to rates. If it is a not-for-profit body, for example, a community set-up, it is exempt. That is pretty straightforward. Perhaps we can discuss it further.

I will go into more detail on the status. As the Senator rightly said, Tailte Éireann is an independent Government agency under the aegis of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Tailte Éireann provides a property registration system, a property valuation service and the national mapping and surveying infrastructure for the State. Tailte Éireann is independent in the exercise of its valuation functions under the Valuation Act 2001, as amended, and the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage has no function in decisions in this regard.

Tailte Éireann has overall responsibility under the Act for the maintenance of all valuation lists used by local authorities in the calculation of rates liability. This maintenance is carried out under the statutory process known as revision. Existing rateable properties have their valuations revised, and new properties may have their valuations entered on, or excluded from, the valuation list for the first time.

Under the Act, all property is rateable unless it falls into one of the exempt categories listed in Schedule 4 to the Act. This is a very specific range of exemptions that can be applied, and Tailte Éireann has no discretionary latitude to grant exemptions not covered by Schedule 4. Paragraph 22 of the Schedule, which is inserted by the Valuation (Amendment) Act 2015, refers specifically to early childhood care and education facilities. As the Senator noted, it provided for an exemption as follows: “Any land, building or part of a building used exclusively for the provision of early childhood care and education, and occupied by a body which is not established and the affairs of which are not conducted for the purpose of making a private profit.” That is exempt, but if it is profit-making, it is not and, therefore, while the Act provides that early childhood care and education facilities that are operated on a not-for-profit basis are exempt from rates, it does not provide a general exemption from rates for all childcare or childminding facilities operating on a for-profit basis. To avoid ambiguity, if an early childhood care and education facility is operated on a for-profit basis, it does not fulfil the criteria under paragraph 22.

With regard to childminding in the home, section 3 of the Act defines “domestic premises” as any premises used as a dwelling which is neither a mixed premises nor an aparthotel. If the property is used partly as a dwelling to a significant extent and partly for another purpose, it may be a mixed premises as defined in the Act, and consequently, may not qualify for the domestic premises exemption, in accordance with paragraph 6, Schedule 4, to the Act.

As a matter of course, Tailte Éireann examines all properties on their individual merits by reference to the relevant statutory provisions governing the operation of the Act and case law arising from the independent Valuation Tribunal in the higher courts. Applications to Tailte Éireann to consider the valuation of a property are normally submitted by the local authority in whose rating authority area the property is situated. Where a property is considered rateable, in accordance with the provisions of the Act and relevant case law, Tailte Éireann will issue a proposed valuation certificate. If the property is considered not rateable, Tailte Éireann will issue a proposed notice.

I have very little time left. There is more detail in my prepared script about the role of the local authority. In the context of the comments of the Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Senator's appeal today, I will talk to the Minister, Deputy Browne. I imagine this will require legislative change if it is to proceed but I will start that conversation and we will see where it goes.

Really what I am saying is let us get it down to brass tacks: a family or a parent who decides to take a child in and make €200 a week has to pay rates. Let us keep the message simple because that is how we communicate with our electorate: anyone listening in who is caring for a child and is in receipt of money is liable for rates. Despite all the announcements about concerns for childcare and supporting rural communities and families, people in difficulty and people who cannot access childcare or moderate supports, the position is that if an individual - I am not talking about the tax code, which is a matter for individuals and for Revenue - is caring for a child and is in receipt of money, and is making it profitable by covering more than what he or she is outlaying, he or she is liable for rates. That is a very serious issue. It has profound impact on rural communities, including the Minister of State's community and mine. It needs to be challenged. Let us cut to the case by seeking to end the ambiguity: we have to support people, particularly in rural communities, who want to reach out and provide - for a reasonable consideration, fee or contribution - care to a neighbour's child or a child in their community. That needs to be addressed as part of the bigger commitment to rural Ireland and rural communities but also communities in urban Ireland. I am particularly conscious and mindful of rural communities. Nobody wants to operate in the black economy. People want to be legitimate and compliant. This needs to be looked at again. I appreciate the Minister of State's commitment to take it up with the Minister. Deputy Foley has committed to this and, I understand, has already spoken to the relevant Minister. We now need follow-on dialogue. There is a two-way process. Sending emails and letters to the Minister and hearing nothing is not very satisfactory.

We need to increase the provision of childcare, especially in rural areas. There may be methods and ways of looking at that. It may not be as straightforward as the Senator has presented it. At the moment, the short-term letting legislation is very topical. If someone has a bed and breakfast with planning permission, it may be subject to rates. It probably is. I refer to the old, traditional bed and breakfasts that the Senator and I would have stayed in - not together, by the way - over the years. By comparison, in most cases Airbnbs are not subject to rates. There are disparities in that regard as well. We have to think of that when talking about childcare provision. There are childcare operators who may have a premises that is subject to rates. We have to ensure there is not an issue in terms of competition and fairness. The Senator makes a good point. If the Minister, Deputy Foley, in the context of her comments is supporting looking at this again, I can raise it with her to see if some blend or tweaking of the current legislation can accommodate the type of situation the Senator is speaking about.