◎ OireachtasDB

Seanad Éireann · 2026-03-26

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

4 matters · 17 contributions · 9 speakers · 5,793 words

In this session

Most used terms in this session

How often each word appears across the whole session, ranked by how distinctive it is to it rather than common to all parliamentary language.

melatonin 11
school 38
task 25
senator 29
local 37
force 23
menopause 9
minister 43
ramsgrange 6
hpra 6
democracy 12
interview 9

The session in full

Every matter in the order taken: the question as tabled, where there is one, then the exchange.

International Protection

IND Sharon Keogan

The Minister of State, Deputy Collins, is welcome to Seanad Éireann this morning. I rise today because this House cannot meaningfully discuss international protection or the functioning of the process of the International Protection Office, IPO, without access to the most basic operational data. Right now, we do not have that data. The matter I raise is the need for the Minister to provide the annual number of applicants who fail to attend their scheduled international protection interviews, to explain why this information is not stored in a systematic, accessible format and to set out when a proper system for the recording and reporting of these figures will be implemented. If the State cannot tell us the number of people who miss their interviews, how can it claim to understand the system it administers? How can we talk about capacity backlogs or efficiency when such fundamental facts are unknown?

Over the past year, I have repeatedly been told that no-show figures exist only within individual files and retrieving them would require an onerous manual trawl. Whether that is accurate or reflects deeper structural issues, the effects are the same - the Oireachtas is left without essential information. We cannot legislate, scrutinise policy or reassure the public in the dark. What makes this more troubling is that the Department’s standard operating procedure, SPO, shows that interview attendance is already recorded, reasons for no-shows entered, daily reports issued, spreadsheets updated and no-show statuses tracked. How can data captured across multiple internal points not be retrievable at an organisational level? This is not a criticism of staff but, rather, the systems design and governance. Without systemic data collection, we cannot identify trends, allocate resources or understand how much of the backlog is avoidable.

Public debate becomes guesswork, which is unfair on everyone involved. A modern asylum system must be evidence-based and transparent. Anything less is unsustainable. Today, I ask the Minister of State to do three things, namely, provide the most recent figures of interview no-shows; explain why they are not centrally stored; and commit to implementing a proper recording and reporting system in order that this House and the public can understand how the process is functioning.

I raise this matter because the public deserves clarity. The staff deserve workable systems and the Oireachtas deserves the information it needs to do its job. If the Minister is serious about transparency in the international protection process, then implementing systemic data recording on interview attendance is not just advisable; it is unavoidable.

FF Niall Collins

I thank Senator Keogan for raising the matter, which I am taking of behalf of the Minister, Deputy O’Callaghan. I assure the Senator that it is a central priority for our Department that our migration laws are robust and enforced. Over the last number of years, there has been a significantly increased investment into the international protection system to improve efficiencies and output, as well as enhancing the application, interview and decision-making process for applicants.

In 2025, the International Protection Office, IPO, delivered over 20,200 first-instance decisions. This is a 44% increase compared with approximately 14,100 decisions made in 2024.

In relation to applicants for international protection who do not present for their personal interviews, this can be due to a number of reasons, including where the applicant is unable to attend due to illness or extreme weather situations. When an applicant provides a medical certificate or a reasonable explanation, either prior to or within three working days of the missed interview, a new date for their interview is arranged. In situations where no medical certificates or reasonable reasons are forthcoming, the applicant's case is considered as potentially non-co-operative. This involves applications being assessed on the basis of the information that is on the file at the time. Where an applicant does not attend a scheduled interview but is able to provide a reasonable explanation or a medical certificate, the interview is rescheduled.

In relation to cases before the International Protection Appeals Tribunal, IPAT, where an appellant does not attend their scheduled hearing, a communication issues to them and their legal representative advising that they have a timeframe of three days in which to engage with the tribunal or else the appeal will be marked for withdrawal. If a response is received within the three days, the assigned tribunal member will consider if the explanation is acceptable to proceed. Where there is no contact, the tribunal issues a notification letter advising that the appeal is deemed withdrawn. Information recorded in this regard is not stored in a manner that allows detailed data to be extracted.

With the transition to the migration pact under way, system updates and moves to improved databases will allow for enhanced data processing and reporting. I can confirm that, from June, it is planned that all interview data will be collected in a manner that will allow for reporting.

I assure the Senator that the Department is committed to enhancing transparency and effective communication of the Department's work, including in the area of international protection.

IND Sharon Keogan

I thank the Minister of State for the reply. I am not filled with confidence in relation to the question I asked about how the data is kept on non-co-operative people that turn up within the international protection application process and who are taken out of the system. Are the taxpayers in this country still paying the daily allowance for that individual? Are they still paying for housing for that individual? Are they still paying for the medical card for that individual? I refer to cases where the person is non-co-operative. The problem is that we do not know how many of those people exist. That is a broader problem for the Department, which has responsibility for international protection. There is a body of work to be done within the Department. Taxpayers need to know if people are not turning up for their interviews and they turn out to the non-co-operative because they lied when they presented to the International Protection Office, IPO, at their first entry. They go missing, but they are getting welfare, accommodation and a medical card. Everything is being met by the State. That is simply not good enough. We need to know how many such people are in the country at this moment in time. If they are not here legally and claiming asylum, they should be deported.

FF Niall Collins

As the Senator will be aware, Ireland has opted in to the EU asylum and migration pact, which will come into effect in June of this year. The pact will provide a fair, sustainable and efficient asylum procedure. This will be achieved through convergence in asylum practices across the European Union and through the introduction of streamlined and faster processing times. As part of efforts to improve efficiencies in the processing of applications, applications have been processed at both the IPO offices in Mount Street and at the Citywest reception centre for some time now.

On 1 July 2025, the Department introduced the first phase of a gradual transition to a new accelerated end-to-end process for applicants entering the international protection system in Ireland. This new accelerated process mirrors elements of the future broader procedure and screening required by the EU pact on migration and asylum, while still adhering to the International Protection Act 2015. We will continue to improve the efficiencies and the transparencies where possible in relation to the international protection process.

Local Government Reform

FF Mary Fitzpatrick

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan, for coming to the House this morning. My Commencement matter in the Seanad is to seek an update from the Minister of State with responsibility for local government on the local democracy task force. I commend the Minister on having established it very promptly after the Government was formed to build on the work that had been done by the previous Government to strengthen the role of local councillors. The Minister of State is very aware of what is involved, as he is a former councillor himself, as are the Acting Chair, Senator Noonan, and I. We have all served proudly on local authorities. The local authorities and local councillors are the closest contact point for most citizens with democracy and with the Government.

The local democracy task force was established to ensure that our local democracy was strengthened, that it was transparent, that there was accountability and, most importantly, that our local authority members were equipped to serve their local democracies. My call in my Commencement matter this morning is for an update from the Minister of State on the local democracy task force report, which the Minister received in March. He got a final report. I commend the Association of Irish Local Government, AILG, the Local Authorities Members Association, LAMA, and all the local authority members who engaged in the preparation of that report. It was a very significant and valuable piece of work that they undertook. I appreciate that the Minister has only had the report since March. My tabling of this early Commencement matter is an indication of the keen interest and anticipation that exists among councillors for the response of the Government to it. This is really important.

I think of councillors right around the country who, at the instruction of the Minister, are conducting reviews of their county development plans. We all know this. When you conduct a review of a county development plan, it is a very significant undertaking. It is an incredibly important statutory document that will guide the planning process and the planning decisions that will be made in an area over a long period of time. However, our councillors are not individually resourced to engage in that process. They need to be resourced. They need to be supported so that they can deliver the best outcomes for their communities. There are other issues around the gratuity payment that need to be addressed and, obviously, the local boundary reviews are coming down the road as well. We will very quickly be back into another electoral cycle.

I cannot over-emphasise the need for urgency and a constructive response from the Government. Our democracy matters. We live in a world where democracy is challenged. Freedom, independence and democracy cannot be taken for granted. Local authority members are the champions of local democracy. They deserve not only to be protected but to be resourced, supported and championed. I believe the Minister will do that. I hope the Minister of State can provide an update on how the Minister is going to respond to the local democracy task force report.

FF Christopher O'Sullivan

I thank Senator Fitzpatrick so much for raising this vital issue. In fairness to her, I know the whole concept of the task force and reviewing local government and how local authorities work was something that she called for in the last Seanad. She is following through now and is looking for an update. I completely understand. I fully agree with the strengthening of local government that she called for here today. We need more resources for councillors. As she said, she and I both know that councillors often rely on information that the executives would have full access to, and they are scrambling to get information. Those resources need to be increased.

There has to be an acknowledgement, as the Senator said, of the dedicated work that local authority members do and the time and effort they put in. I agree with her that this is not reflected in their current conditions. I hope that it makes up part of the recommendations that have been provided by the task force. There is also the basic principle of strengthening the role of local authority members. It is vital and it is fair to say that it has been eroded over time. We need to get back to a place where it is put front and centre. I appreciate the Senator raising this and as she correctly pointed out, the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, and the Minister, Deputy Browne, now have that report. I am not privy to the recommendations, so I cannot go through what is within them in detail. However, they are assessing them at the moment and reading them in detail for publication very shortly, so this is a timely Commencement matter on the Senator's behalf. I am going to go through the process in the two and half minutes I have left in terms of how this came about and where it is at the moment.

The local democracy task force was established in June 2025 as a key commitment in the programme for Government. The terms of reference for the task force set out an ambitious and detailed work programme. In addition to the public consultation committee report from this House, the work of the task force was also built on a substantial body of work that had already been undertaken by the Association of Irish Local Government and the Council of Europe on the powers, functions and responsibilities of local government, which the Senator alluded to.

The task force was given an ambitious timeline of submitting its report within six to nine months, and the work that went before it meant that this short timeframe was achievable. The task force was chaired by Jim Breslin, a former senior public servant, and membership was made up of local authority elected member representative bodies, local authority executive representatives, officials from the National Oversight and Audit Commission, the Local Government Audit Service, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and a number of independent experts.

The task force delivered its report by dividing the terms of reference into four specific themes. These themes were the structures, funding, functions, and governance and accountability provisions within the local authority sector. As subject matter experts working within the sector, the pillar groups provided in-depth evidence-based information and advice to the task force to guide the preparation of all recommendations. In total, the task force, along with the pillar groups, had combined membership in excess of 50 people which saw the task force meet on nine occasions and the pillar groups meet in excess of 40 occasions.

A wide stakeholder engagement was central to the task force’s work and included key organisations and bodies, employer and employee representatives, community and voluntary groups and experts at the discretion of the task force. The task force invited submissions from a broad range of stakeholders, including political parties, and I understand it had very high levels of engagement, including an engagement with Senator Fitzpatrick herself. That engagement offers great confidence that the task force recommendations are representative of the sector, together with civil society that relies so heavily upon local authorities on a day-to-day basis.

The task force submitted its final report to the Minister, Deputy Browne, and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, in early March 2026, and these are currently under consideration. It is expected that the recommendations within the report, together with an implementation plan, will be brought to Government shortly. It is their intention to maintain the momentum that the report has generated by driving any legislative change that is required on foot of recommendations.

I hope that gives the Senator some confidence. The term "shortly” is obviously not a prescribed time, but I am quite confident that we will see the results and the recommendations very shortly. As said in that statement, we will keep the momentum up. Any legislative changes that are required will build on the momentum from the task force.

FF Mary Fitzpatrick

I agree with the Minister of State's statement. The work was completed in an incredibly efficient and professional way but also in a very engaging way. The task force report is not just representative of the local authorities, their members and their executives, but also of civil society. That is incredibly valuable and the Minister will value it. I just urge the Minister of State to go back to the Department and Minister and really encourage them to take action swiftly, to respond promptly to the task force's report and not to allow it gather dust because time is precious. It is moving on and we are living in a very changing world.

Every time there is a crisis in this country, the local authorities respond. They are the first to respond if there is a flood or any sort of event, so they deserve an urgent response from Government when they provide recommendations. They are approaching this in an incredibly constructive way. Their recommendations are strong and will be valuable. They will also not just serve the local authorities but our broader democracy as well.

FF Christopher O'Sullivan

These will be published shortly. I will speak to the Minister, Deputy Browne, and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, to ensure that "shortly" means very shortly and immediately, and that the recommendations are followed through on. I know that the Senator is working on that already because I know she has met the Minister, Deputy Browne, and will meet him again to ensure those recommendations reflect the work that she has done and that they are followed through on and legislated for, if necessary. I sincerely thank everybody who fed into the work of the task force and everybody who compiled the recommendations. I outlined the number of meetings that were held. This was taken seriously with genuine and important feedback coming from members and civil servants from right across the board. Hopefully there are exciting times ahead and we will see reserved functions and proper authority given back to local authority members, and that we curb the erosion of power that has taken place in terms of local government.

Schools Building Projects

FG Cathal Byrne

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, for coming in to take this very important Commencement matter. This relates to Ramsgrange Community School, a school in south Wexford. It is a very large provider of secondary-level education to people from as far south as the Hook Peninsula and as far north as Murntown on the outskirts of Wexford town. The school has a massive catchment area and currently has approximately 630 students enrolled and attending. I recently visited the school at the request of acting principal, Tracey Edwards, simply because of the overcapacity and the shortage of spaces there. To be honest, I was shocked by what I saw. So many of the common areas that were originally designed for students to play in, have access to, to socialise in and have their breaks in have been repurposed as teaching areas. It is a school that was designed back in the 1980s. It consists of prefabricated buildings and was designed for a maximum capacity of approximately 500 students. With 630 students attending at the moment, there simply is not enough space. The population in that area and the large catchment area that it serves is continuing to grow. More students are looking to be enrolled there than is possible to facilitate. The school is now starting to turn away students as it is at maximum capacity.

One of the main issues is that the school took on four additional special needs classes. They are housed in an ancillary building that is owned by the Waterford and Wexford Education and Training Board, WWETB, and that building is simply not fit for purpose. The roof is in bits, and it is an ancient building. The WWETB is allowing the school to facilitate its special needs classes in that building in a gesture of kindness but it is just not suitable.

The school was put forward for extension building works over the past number of years. The process started back in 2020 with the appointment of the design team. It moved to stage 1 in 2021. It moved to stage 2a in 2023. Planning permission was applied for in July 2024. It was granted in May 2025 after a few back and forths regarding further information requests, an archaeological survey and different things that had to be complied with. The school will shortly lodge the application to move to the tender phase. I hope that the school's application to move to the tender phase will be treated as a priority by the Government and the Minister to reflect the reality on the ground. There are so many students. There is overcrowding and the school has classrooms that are not fit for purpose.

This application accordingly has to be treated a priority. It has to move through from the tender to build phases as soon as possible. I ask the Minister of State to take this Matter seriously and to bring it back to the Department and for it to really hear that points that have been put forward by the school community. We need to ensure that it is treated as the priority that it deserves to be as it serves such a large catchment area in south Wexford.

FG Alan Dillon

I thank Senator Cathal Byrne for raising this important matter and giving me the opportunity the provide the current position regarding the planned school building project for Ramsgrange Community School, County Wexford.

I am taking this Commencement matter on behalf of the Minster for Education, Deputy Hildegarde Naughton.

The school referred to by the Senator was approved to enter the Department's pipeline for school building projects under the additional school accommodation scheme to provide ten general classrooms, one science lab, one science prep area, two special education classrooms, one music room and ancillary accommodation. This project is devolved to the school authority for delivery.

In December 2023, as the Senator outlined, the project was granted approval to proceed to stage 2b, detailed design of the architectural design process. This stage includes obtaining all statutory approvals, preparing a set of fully detailed tender documents and preparing an accurate pre-tender cost plan. The Department currently awaits submission of the stage 2b report. On submission of the report, the Department will carry out a detailed review from a technical and cost perspective. All projects, including this one, are subject to the full due diligence requirements set out in the Department’s infrastructure guidelines. Managing timing, scope and cost is crucial to staying within the budgetary limits of the overall programme.

As the Senator will be aware, the Department recently published a €7.55 billion NDP sectoral investment plan for the education and youth sectors to 2030. This involves a very strong emphasis on maximising existing capacity and the prioritisation of school building projects to meet the most urgent need. There will be a strong special education dimension to project roll-out. The Department recognises that there are schools with important building projects that are not included in the first tranche of proposed projects. The list of projects prioritised to proceed to tender and construction are focused on projects at a more advanced stage than the project at Ramsgrange school. Nevertheless, as the Senator outlined, the school has since raised a number of accommodation issues with the Department. The Department continues to engage with the school and the school management body to examine any urgent or priority works required at the school. That engagement is ongoing.

As part of planning for the next tranche of projects to progress to tender, the Department-led prioritisation process will continue over the course of 2026 and 2027 to assess and evaluate the progression of individual projects through the design pipeline, having regard to the continued need to maximise existing capacity and determine the prioritised needs. This process will involve engagement with key stakeholders and individual schools and will ultimately inform the next tranche of programme that will go to tender. The Department energy and condition survey of school estates will be finalised later in 2026 and will provide an additional evidence base for assessing priorities.

Based on the ongoing prioritisation process, some projects will be added to the list over the course of 2026 and 2027, having regard to their prioritisation and the urgency the Senator outlined, the need required and the ongoing ability to progress the school project to tender and construction within the parameters of overall funding. Where appropriate, the Department will assess opportunities to undertake advanced enabling works for the most urgent and complex projects to facilitate a smooth transition to construction in 2028 and beyond. The project at Ramsgrange Community School will form part of that overall consideration, in consultation with the school authority, management board and patrons.

FG Cathal Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for the response. I very much welcome the fact that the Department will commit to engaging with the school. I cannot overemphasise the importance of the project. I know Ramsgrange Community School will engage with the energy and conditions survey the Department will open shortly. I know from my interactions with the school how keen it is to engage with the Department on that, in particular to ensure that the special classes, of which there are currently four, will be in a position to move to a purpose-built facility.

With 630 students attending a school built for 500 in prefab buildings from the 1980s, I encourage the Department to take the school's reflections on where things are at the moment and ensure that it is a priority. I would also like to invite the Minister for Education and Youth to come to the school and meet the students, school management and acting principal, Tracey Edwards. Perhaps the Minister of State might take that open invitation back to the Minister. The school is more than happy to facilitate the visit and show the Minister firsthand the real lived experience of the students in the school on a day-to-day basis.

FG Alan Dillon

I again thank the Senator for raising this important matter and raising his concerns around the need to accelerate this project. For the 630 students he represents, their parents, the board of management and the principal, Tracey Edwards, those concerns have been heard loud and clear. I will bring back to the Minister the need for the Department to examine the project and carry out ongoing engagement and consultation with the school. Through continued engagement with Ramsgrange and the school management body, I will ask that the Department examine any urgent priority works that are required and try to ensure the project continues to progress through stage 2b and to tender and construction. I again thank the Senator for raising the issue.

Medicinal Products

FF Alison Comyn

Everyone may be experiencing what I will describe for very different reasons. Imagine lying awake at night, tossing and turning and unable to switch off. The room is too warm and suddenly too cold and night sweats come and go. Thoughts are racing, replaying the day just gone and worrying about the day ahead. All the while, one knows one really needs some sleep. For many women going through menopause, this is not the occasional bad night. Rather, it is night after night of broken and disrupted sleep. Life is difficult enough as a woman going through menopause without exhaustion making it worse. There are physical symptoms, emotional strain and an impact on work and family life. Sleep is not a luxury; it is an absolute essential.

I am a firm believer that anything which can safely and effectively support women through menopause should be as accessible as possible. As we know, Ireland has made huge progress in this space. The introduction of free HRT has been transformative for many women and shows what can be achieved when we take women's health really seriously. We can do more.

One simple and practical step is to allow low-dose melatonin to be made available over the counter in pharmacies. Melatonin is widely used to support sleep and in many countries it is also available without prescription at low doses, including France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Poland, the United States and Canada. In Ireland, however, it remains prescription-only.

It is also a great help to neurodivergent children who have difficulty sleeping or need to be made calm before bedtime. It is no longer available on the medical card. The reality is that many women are already accessing melatonin, just not through our system. They are buying it abroad or asking friends or family to bring it back in their luggage. That tells the real story. It tells us that there is a demand and women and parents are actively seeking solutions to this problem. It raises the question as to why we are not facilitating safe and regulated access to melatonin here at home.

This is not about replacing medical care. Rather, it is about recognising that, at low doses, melatonin is considered safe in many jurisdictions and can provide real relief for those struggling with sleep disruption or deprivation. Pharmacists are highly trained professionals and are well placed to advise on appropriate use. Allowing over-the-counter access would ensure women and some children receive proper guidance, rather than relying on informal routes.

This is just another small change that could have a really meaningful impact on quality of life. Better sleep supports better physical health, mental well-being and day-to-day functioning. It would also bring Ireland into line with many of our European neighbours who already recognise the huge benefits of making low-dose melatonin more accessible. I am hoping that the Minister of State will examine this issue closely, to engage with the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA, to consider a pathway to allow low-dose melatonin to be made available over the counter in Irish pharmacies. As I have said before, if there is a safe, evidence-based way to help women - and, as I mentioned, neurodivergent children and young people - to sleep better during one of the most challenging phases of their lives then we should be doing everything we can to make that support available.

FF Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I am taking this on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, who cannot be here today. I thank the Senator for highlighting a really important issue. It is good that we are talking about this and it very important that we look at the changes that can be made.

I will briefly outline some of the details on melatonin. This is most often used to treat insomnia, which is characterised by poor quality of sleep. Melatonin is currently listed in what is called column A of the First Schedule of the prescription and control of supply regulations, SI 540 of 2003. This means that it is a prescription-only medicine that cannot be renewed. In Ireland, all currently authorised melatonin-containing medical products are subject to prescription control. The Health Products Regulatory Authority is the agency in Ireland with responsibility for the regulation of medicines for the benefit of patients. The Department of Health engages closely with the HPRA on its remit. It should be noted that the HPRA is open to review any application from a marketing authorisation holder, MAH, to change the prescription status of melatonin to non-prescription status. This is in line with the HPRA policy to make medicines and health products available at the most convenient point of access for people, where it is safe and appropriate to do so, following the evaluation of all relevant data.

The Department of Health and the HPRA are not aware of any specific MAH applications that are currently under review. Once a marketing authorisation has been issued, it is a matter for the marketing authorisation holder to decide whether to make the medicine available in Ireland. It is important to note that other policy measures have been introduced by the Department in recent years to support women through their menopause journey. I know the Senator spoke about them. It is a priority for us in government.

The Department of Health will keep the matter under review and will be happy to provide the Senator with a further update, should additional relevant information become available. I will go back to the Minister because we need to get more clarification on this. I thank the Senator again for highlighting this really important issue.

FF Alison Comyn

I thank the Minster of State for taking it so seriously. I note from the Minister of State's response that the issue has not really moved forward since it was raised in the Dáil last year. I must note that our President, Catherine Connolly, raised this issue. We need to see why it has not been approached by any of the marketing authorities. If there is such a demand for it then clearly it is falling between two stools here. We need to make sure we are bridging that gap to make it available. As I mentioned before, it is a huge bonus to not only menopausal women but also neurodivergent children and people with ADHD. It is not available on the medical card any more. It used to be a great boost to families and now it is costing money. This would really take the burden away. We are not suggesting that it is going to be free but at the same time, making it more freely available would certainly help. I thank the Minister of State for taking this very seriously and I look forward to our next step on it. I will not be letting it go.

FF Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

As the Senator noted earlier, the HPRA is open to review any applications from a marketing authorisation holder to change the prescription status of melatonin to non-prescription status. That is the first point of call that we need to look. Additionally, the Government recognises that menopause is a key health issue for women in Ireland today. The Senator also referred to neurodivergent children and people with ADHD, which is important to highlight. Much work has been done to drive progress in this area by the women's health task force and the women's health action plans that we are working on. To support women through their menopause journey we have significantly enhanced the supports available to them. As the Senator said, six specialist menopause clinics have been invested in since 2025. These have had their opening hours extended.

Since 1 June 2025, free HRT has been provided to women experiencing menopause. This is available where it has been prescribed to a woman by a healthcare provider for the purpose of alleviating the symptoms associated with all stages of menopause. We definitely need to go back to the Department and follow this up. As the Senator said, this was brought up last year in the Dáil. The Senator is right that we need to work on this to see how we can bring it further. I thank her again for highlighting this really important issue.

CC Malcolm Noonan

I thank all the relevant line Ministers who are with us today. It is appreciated. We do not always get the relevant Minister to the subject matter. I think this is appreciated by the Senators so we hope that continues.