There is a substantial Bill before us and if the Minister of State gives an editorial and attributes statements and views to everybody across the House at great length in response to everyone, it will be a lengthy debate. It is an issue if people are attributing statements that are misrepresentations to people in the House. That is a concern. The Minister of State has just said at great length------

It is a debate on the policy and on the law.

I am entitled to come back but I would like not to have a politics in which we simply say, "You're saying this, this is what you're saying, this is what you're saying, this is what you're like." That is the politics we are hearing and it is not constructive. The Minister of State made some valid points in relation to Schedules D and E which Senators acknowledged and engaged with. Then the Minister of State came back again to contribute completely inaccurate perspectives in respect of the taxation of other unemploym…

I am speaking to the section and how it may or may not be changed.

This is, in fact, very relevant. I might not agree with the exact letter of Senator Mullen's proposed recommendation of two of every three years. To recognise the fact that sometimes artists will get a very large payment once in perhaps five or ten years, this might have been a better nuance, although there is value in the overall proposal to be examined. Senator Mullen is correct in his interpretation of the Standing Order and it needs to be examined. It came up last year on the Finance Bill-----

-----when I had a similar debate in respect of the continuation of a special tax relief for golf courses-----

When many other areas of hospitality had their VAT increased, golf courses were given an exemption. It is a misinterpretation and an undue measure. "The people" is "the State" and "the public purse" and "the revenue" is "the revenue". To move this and, in fact, to have amendments that benefit Revenue and benefit the people, effectively, with whatever interpretation of it, is a skewed interpretation. I recognise we cannot debate it further-----

-----but it is one we will need to take up either at higher political level or perhaps at the Committee on Procedures and Privilege.

I do not take particular exception to this scheme but I do object to the idea that we need to coax builders when a bigger and more substantial change would be brought about if we addressed the issues that were mentioned, including the fact that speculators can buy large numbers of units and benefit from tax relief measures through other schemes. That is the end of it.

No, but as was raised by a Member, that is the context of this support. I am in favour of supporting first-time buyers but one of the reasons they need support is that they are up against speculative purchasers that are also helped by other schemes which outweigh this one. They are in a situation where builders have been allowed to hoard land for strategic housing developments, get planning permission and not deliver on that housing. That is creating a shrunken market in which investors are disproportionately power…

I move recommendation No. 4: 4. In page 11, after line 34, to insert the following: “11. The Minister shall, within three months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report on the introduction of a new threshold for High Wealth Individuals defined as persons in possession of net assets of the value of €10 million and above.”. This recommendation asks that the Minister would, within three months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before both Houses of the Oireac…

I acknowledge that the Minister of State has taken an interest in this issue in the past, that he continues to take an interest in it and that the threshold has been reduced to €20 million. I am of the view, however, that a threshold of €10 million would be better. There are two issues here. One is the question of the gathering of the information and the other, which is outside my prerogative as a member of the Opposition, relates to what we do with that information. I believe that we need to consider the introduct…

I move recommendation No. 8: In page 56, between lines 2 and 3, to insert the following: “26. The Minister shall, within three months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before both House of the Oireachtas a report on— (a) the introduction of Capital Gains Tax at a rate of 33 per cent where a REIT or a group of REIT disposes of a property of its property rental business, (b) the introduction of a surcharge on REITs buying up residential properties, and (c) the effect or otherwise of REITs on the supply of r…

If anything, the Minister of State has made the case for a far more ambitious investigation into REITs than mine. We all have a concern about the potential homeowners and those in rental situations. The Minister of State is correct that approximately 70% of the money has gone into commercial office blocks, many of which are empty. We can take a walk in the square mile around these buildings and see thousands of square metres of empty commercial office space. In many cases we also see, and this was highlighted durin…

The Minister of State has acknowledged that the complexion of the situation has changed in the past six months. This has not been a normal six-month period. The complexion of how our towns and cities might work has entirely changed. I do not think it is by choice that everybody is moving home. It is also because property has become very valuable, in a speculative way, over the past few years. Office blocks have been favoured in many cases, even in areas where housing is desperately needed. It is commercially and fi…

That is not accurate.

They are different-----

Let us not try to do made-up maths because it does not help or serve anybody. We are suggesting a 33% tax on the capital gains that are made when a company makes a purchase. REITs do not have one person who is the investor, they have multiple investors. Those investors, at the end of whatever year or quarter of the functioning of the company, get the dividends of the profits. The Minister of State is arguing that every payment of capital gains tax, as many normal people pay on purchases they have made, is somehow a…

I move recommendation No. 9: In page 56, between lines 2 and 3, to insert the following: "26. The Minister shall, within six months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report on policy options which could be taken to restrict banks from carrying forward losses against taxability of their current profits of those banks, and where banking profits arise from loans guaranteed by the Minister under the Credit Guarantee (Amendment) Act 2020 and the Credit Guarantee Act 2012,…

If they are not making profits, this recommendation will not affect them. It only applies to profits, so if they are making losses they have absolutely nothing to fear if this recommendation was brought in on Report Stage and if the measure was implemented right now. It would not have any effect because they are not making profits. The very nature of this measure - it was the balancing act sought originally by former Minister, the late Brian Lenihan, who brought it in - is that when they are profitable, they start …