This House and the Lower House have done extreme damage to the Defence Forces. Statements about holding them to a higher plane than anybody else-----

We are talking about the command structure.

I am entitled to my view on the command structure of the Defence Forces.

You might be being a little bit hard on me, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

Of course I am pressing the amendment.

What we are talking about here is gagging members of the Defence Forces. We do not have any difficulty on the political side but Government policy is the issue, as Senator McDowell has outlined. There has already been a High Court case involving a soldier who wanted to appear in the respect and loyalty parades that took place in 2019, 2020 and 2021. The Minister's Department lost that case on constitutional grounds. This was about the right of a soldier to protest in a public parade. There are double standards here…

The Tánaiste referred to the phrase "while in uniform or otherwise making himself or herself identifiable as a member of the Permanent Defence Force". The secretary general of RACO, the deputy secretary general, any member of RACO's or PDFORRA's executive committee or any official working for PDFORRA are members of the Permanent Defence Force on secondment to these representative bodies. In the view of the Minister, if they speak out he is facilitating them today, saying that is perfectly all right, it is their job…

Is it section G?

As far as I am concerned, all we need to do here is remove the phrase "on matters of Government policy". If we remove that phrase, we can agree to move forward on that basis. Again I go back to the situation mentioned earlier, which the Tánaiste did not address. A Pride parade is a political parade. Would the Tánaiste agree with that? If so, then any regulation coming forward has to cover instances where the Defence Forces would be allowed to proudly parade in uniform. It was really disappointing for me last weeken…

Does it not advocate for-----

I thank the Minister for putting on the record of the House that the vast majority of members of the Defence Forces are decent, honest, hardworking, law-abiding citizens. That was an important statement to make in the House today because of the level of hurt there is in the defence community and family due to things said in recent days. The Minister has now corrected the record and I thank him for that. I will return to "all matters of Government policy". That is all I ask the Minister to remove. It is a simple thi…

Yes.

I will go back to my time as president of the Teachers' Union of Ireland, TUI. I remember making a statement one day and at the following executive meeting, one of the executive members asked who had given me permission to make the bloody statement. He said that there was an executive committee and its role was to decide what I could and could not say. We have an additional restriction on the representative bodies of the Defence Forces because of this section. That would not apply to any other representative body. …

I move amendment No. 5: In page 9, line 13, to delete “or matter of Government policy”.

I am concerned as we are running very tight on time and there is a huge section of this Bill that deals with the external oversight body and the participation of the Secretary General of the Department. I wonder whether there is a way that we could call on the Leader to the House to extend time and give us another half hour.

I appreciate the Tánaiste's position and he will appreciate that the external oversight body and the participation of the Secretary General is a huge issue.

I assume they have a lot of money to throw down the drain.

I wish to deal with all of the amendments together, if I may, given the time we have. Section 323(1)(c) provides that the Secretary General of the Department of Defence shall be an ex officio member of the external oversight body. Section 323(7) states, "The person appointed (or designated under subsection (6)) as chairperson of the External Oversight Body shall not have served [in] the Defence Forces [or any other defence force]". I find both of those things repugnant to the external oversight body. First, let us …

The Minister does not have to-----

It is no secret that I despise the way the IRG report was published. It would have been significant enough at the time to put out two lines saying that there was prima facie evidence, based on research, for a tribunal of inquiry. The rush to the gallows in this building, with rope to hang everybody who wore a uniform, was outrageous and disgusting, but that is not the issue today. We are where we are. The Tánaiste has put a tribunal in place. For that, I thank him. I have no difficulty with what he is saying about …