We cannot move forward without answers.

Sorry, we are not going to put the question. We cannot put the question because we have not even debated the question, apart from Senator Doherty's input.

No, the Acting Chairperson has to be fair to the public. The flying public are the people the Acting Chairperson has to be fair to. Four loved people lost their lives in the accident involving Rescue 116. There were clear recommendations laid down as a result of that accident. We are talking about a massive piece of legislation here that will be used to regulate air navigation and transport in this country for years to come. It would be wrong, in every sense of the word, if there is a conflict of interest anywhere …

If the people who drafted it were in the IAA, then it is wrong because, at the end of the day, there has to be separation between the regulated and the regulator. What would happen if we decided in the morning that we would take the approach of putting a couple of pilots onto the board of the IAA who are also flying for some company or other? What sort of regulation would we have then? That is what we are talking about here. We are talking about mixing the regulated with the regulator. That is fundamentally wrong. …

We gave two and a half hours a week ago and we still did not get the answer. A simple "Yes" or "No", "I do have" or "I do not have" would get us past this point.

I am afraid the House decides the parameters. Senator Sherlock cannot just say that she is the Acting Chairperson and that she is going to push this through and to hell with it.

As a public representative, I am entitled to get the answer, whether it is "Yes" or "No". I am obliged to do it. We are talking about safety. Already, in this country, four people lost their lives. The Department of Transport was damned to hell in the report relating to that accident in the context of its failure to have proper oversight. So was the IAA, but to a lesser degree because it was not sure of its responsibility in the area. We have to be realistic. We cannot ignore what has happened in the past. Those wh…

Hear, hear. Well said.

With respect to the use of the Defence Forces at Dublin Airport, once again, when this country is in crisis, we fall back on the Defence Forces, whose members will not be paid the national minimum wage for the hours they work. They are the lowest paid public servants. Many of them will be dragged to Dublin from all over the country to provide these services. I appreciate that Dublin Airport is in crisis. I was out there at 2 o'clock this morning and I saw the queues and the crowds. I have to compliment the staff. M…

I am sorry for interrupting the Minister, but may we get copies of the speech?

We will do it for him.

I rise to address the Minister as one of his biggest fans when it comes to further education. I came through the further education system. It opened many doors for me and my colleagues. Indeed, some of my colleagues who went through Limerick Senior College in the early 1990s went on to become CEOs of some of the largest corporations in the world and finished up studying in institutions like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harvard University and Princeton University. None of them would have got a place in…

I welcome the Minister of State. This motion is reasonable and one that I wish to support. Sometimes, I feel sorry for a Minister coming to the House to take a motion like this, given that the problems that we are discussing have been endemic in the health system as far back as I remember. On Sunday, I listened to Ms Phil Ní Sheaghdha, the general secretary of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO. She was speaking about the shortage of nurses in accident and emergency departments, and as I listened to h…

Of course we can.

We can ungroup them. The House can do so.

Sorry, no. With respect, that is not the way things work. The House decides its own rules, not the Chair.

We can do it now.

That is the first time I have heard that we have to do it incrementally. We have often-----

That is not my recollection.

Before we proceed to discuss amendments Nos. 1 and 2, I want to pose a few questions. There has been some interaction outside the House on the Bill's progress. There are a few things that I need to establish before we move any further. I ask the Minister of State to state what level of aviation expertise there is in her Department. Who is the aviation expert advising the Minister?