I will clarify. This is my mistake. It is the review that will cease, not the scheme itself.

I thank colleagues for their engagement. Senator Boyhan has outlined the reasons I cannot accept amendment No. 3. It is specifically due to the naming but also the reference to the provision of resources, which is not something I can agree to. It is something that must be worked through on a yearly basis. I have outlined to him in writing our commitment to Sage - to the work it has done and the work it is currently doing. I also referred to the existing supports: the 13 staff and the €1.7 million. There is a commit…

As I have outlined before, this legislation and the supports being provided are directly linked to those who availed of funding through Caranua. Caranua was previously directly linked to those who had availed of the initial redress scheme. There was a very clear and direct link to those who availed of those supports. The intention behind this Bill is not just to wind down Caranua. Caranua was set up with a very specific focus and with a set amount. This Bill puts the supports that were provided through Caranua on a…

The amendment we agreed was the education one. The second amendment was more specifically around Sage Advocacy and outlining its work.

On the amendments we agreed previously, one specifically was in relation to amendments to the criteria, or reviewing the criteria, for the education supports that would be provided through my Department. The second area where I had engagement with Senator Boyhan was specifically around the work of the advocacy group Sage and outlining what it provided. I could come back in a few moments on the elements of what is being requested here and the fact that much of this information is already readily available, given tha…

I can speak to that matter now. I am sorry, as I was not sure if others were coming in.

Specifically on waivers, the Senator is correct. If a person applied to the redress scheme, the waiver would apply there. Obviously, the same criteria have applied for those, be that through Caranua or for the supports we are now putting in place. The person could also apply for Caranua if he or she had gone through a legal process and received a payment or an element of a payment and there was not a waiver in that regard. While it might apply to some people, it does not apply to everybody. Waivers tend to be part …

They were people with court awards and settlements that did not require a waiver and who were able to access the Caranua scheme. With the supports under discussion, the person does not have to have availed of Caranua to avail of the educational or the medical card scheme, but we have applied the same criteria as would have been for the redress scheme. A lot of people would have signed waivers, but not everybody. For what we are talking about here and what the Senator is talking about more broadly, I do not believe …

It depends. There are a lot of people who did-----

For a lot of people, yes.

Waivers are a common feature of most redress schemes. The waiver to which the Senator makes specific reference in amendment No. 6 relates to a scheme, Caranua, that was established separately and is no longer in operation. There is not a specific reference to the waivers because some people had waivers and others did not. I fully appreciate the Senator's point that a lot of people had them. Waivers are put in place because redress schemes are intended to be easily accessible for people. I appreciate this has not al…

I thank the Senators. While I appreciate the intention behind the amendment, it is the case and it is for the reasons outlined and for those specific health reasons that the HAA card was provided to those who contracted hepatitis C, to ensure that those who had essentially life-threatening conditions would be supported through that card. I appreciate the card that is being proposed now does not include some of what was in the other. It does not include some of the complementary therapies nor does it include the acc…

Amendment No. 2 is a technical amendment, the purpose of which is to amend section 3 to reflect the recent change of the official title of the Minister from the “Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform” to the “Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation”. Unfortunately, when this Bill was in the Dáil, the title had not officially changed. It has since happened. This amendment, therefore, is just to correct that in the Bill itself.

I should have started by acknowledging those in the Public Gallery. I thank them for being here. To speak to amendment No. 6, what is being asked here is that there would be professional support provided for victims and survivors. Counselling supports are currently provided through a scheme that was established back in 2000 following the Taoiseach's apology in 1999. It is provided through the national counselling service through the HSE. From the very outset, this has been made available to all adults in Ireland wh…

My intention with this Bill is to pass it so that survivors can benefit from what is in it. I appreciate that there is a difference of opinion on how far it goes. My absolute intention is to make sure they get access, not that people are refused or that anybody has to go to court. That is the last thing anybody wants, nor should it ever happen. I appreciate that sometimes it does but it should never happen. We should be putting in place these supports. Amendment No. 6 refers to professional support. We will not put…

I thank the Senators for their contributions. What we are dealing with here is very specific to individuals who have been identified as residents and who have been part of the previous schemes culminating from the Ryan report. I appreciate there are various different abuses that have happened in different institutions in different elements of the State. What I have to deal with specifically today are those who have, as far back as the early 2000s, been part of that redress scheme. Caranua was then established to pr…

I hope the Senators would agree that I am not reading off a script and am genuinely responding to the questions as they emerge. I want to be honest and straightforward on all of this. Whether it is the enhanced medical card or the HAA card, if there are challenges around waiting lists and access, I would respectfully say that we still have the same problem. On an earlier point made by Senator Craughwell, we need to make sure that every single person in the HSE knows there is already a direction that if a person is …

I will come back on two things in case they were misconstrued. It is not that one has to be wound down for the other. The supports can only come into play with the legislation. Given that Caranua itself is finished, it and the fund are coming hand in hand. It is not that one has to go with the other. I do not want to mislead in terms of figures, and I want to get absolute clarity on what is left. What has been relayed to me is in and around €50,000, so nowhere near what the Senator suggested. We are talking about a…

That was five years later.

I will respond to a couple of points. It is an average of €15,000. Some might have received less; some might have received more. Some 57,000 payments have been made in total. A lot of them would have been from when the Senator mentioned, in 2017. There were two main elements of the way they were paid out, namely, housing and home improvements, which accounted for €68.7 million, and health supports at €27.4 million. Any of the remaining elements went to education and other areas of support. There have been audited a…