There are difficulties in policing the travel of people from both sides of the Border. That is unquestionably the case. However, it is not correct to say there is no lawful way of policing that. The Border management unit does work there. An Garda Síochána is engaged and if people are not citizens of the UK or Ireland, they are not entitled to cross the Border. I have to keep emphasising that. Simply because that is difficult to police does not mean we should change that law. It is an important provision that is in…

I will deal with Deputy Farrelly's point first. "Not beyond the applicant's control" may include circumstances where an applicant is outside of the jurisdiction out of their own control and taken outside the jurisdiction. The purpose there is to try absolve them in respect of that. In reply to Deputy Ó Súilleabháin, I can do many things in this Bill. I cannot get Irish unity in the legislation.

PNR is used for serious criminal activity. It is not used for international protection. Even if that was in place, we would still need to have a mechanism on the Border to check people. We must be honest and realistic about this. The Garda can do some stops in terms of stopping buses or checking individuals but in terms of using something like PNR, people would have to be checked as they go North from South or come South from North. No one in this House wants that. It is a really difficult situation we find ourselv…

I thank the Deputies for their contributions. I am aware that this is an issue of genuine concern to people in this House. The first thing I want to say is that I should and I will bring forward an amendment to define "legal counselling". I cannot, however, accept Deputy Carthy's amendment. The reason I cannot is because, under the Deputy's amendment, he goes further than what is envisaged by legal counselling and says that it should include legal advice provided by a practising solicitor or barrister. What I am re…

Article 16 states: For the purposes of the administrative procedure, free legal counselling shall include the provision of: (a) guidance on and an explanation of the administrative procedure including information on rights and obligations during that procedure; (b) assistance on the lodging of the application and guidance on: (i) the different procedures under which the application may be examined and the reasons for the application of those procedures; (ii) the rules related to the admissibility of an application;…

I thank colleagues for their contributions. I assure all of them that we will be debating the definition of "legal counselling" that I bring forward. I intend to bring it forward in the Seanad. I would have preferred to bring it here on Report Stage. As I stated at the outset, there were time pressures in respect of this. I am being honest about that. I am just reflecting on the matter. The definition of "legal counselling" will reflect the definition in the asylum procedures regulation, APR. It will also take into…

I want to ensure that the legal counselling that is being provided will be very adequate. I believe it will be adequate. It will reflect the definitions that are contained within Deputy Kelly's amendment, as is set out in the administrative procedure regulation. That is the information I have for Deputy Kelly. On Deputy Carthy's amendment specifically, I cannot accept it. It places too great an obligation on me to ensure that it is legal advice by practitioners being provided. I note the point that Deputy Carthy's …

I will answer Deputy Ward while I have it in mind. That will be a matter for the Legal Aid Board. I will not specify in legislation that the board in providing legal counselling must do it individually. That would be an excessive reach in terms of a statute. It will be a matter for the Legal Aid Board to determine. Deputy Gannon referred to the hearings yesterday before the justice committee. I did not hear them but I read about them. He quoted a section from the Free Legal Advice Centres. I have to ensure what I d…

It is very clear from that definition in Article 16 what legal counselling is. It is distinct from legal advice. We need to recognise that when people come in seeking international protection, they do not need the expertise of a very well-qualified senior solicitor. They need somebody who is expert in the area of applications for international protection. They need to be informed about the procedure and the importance of the narrative that is provided to the individual who is hearing their application at first inst…

No.

I want to deal with the issue of detention of unaccompanied minors which has been presented in very emotive way in the House. I need to be clear about the circumstances when it will apply because to listen in to this debate you would think the detention of unaccompanied minors could happen in a haphazard or capricious way but that is not the case. Let us look at what is provided for in section 24. It is contained in section 24(11) and I will read it out because it is extremely important. It states: A member of An G…

I thank colleagues for their contributions. The determination of whether something is in the best interests of a child is carried out every day of the week by judges. It is also a determination that is carried out in advance by Tusla or other agencies which find themselves having to go to court. There are unquestionably occasions where people have to determine what is in the best interests of the child. We are aware that this provision only applies in respect of the screening process. It is a very short period of t…

We need to recognise that when it comes to the drafting of legislation, we do not set out the circumstances in which the Oireachtas believes something would be in the best interests of the child. We have to allow a certain level of discretion. Of course all of this will be subject to very careful judicial intervention. That is why the drafting of the Bill is so important. We need to recognise that the amendment we are dealing with relates to the definition section of the Bill. When we come to section 24, there are …

I thank Deputies Gannon and Kelly for the amendment. I will discuss all of the amendments grouped together. Amendment No. 10 tabled by Deputies Gannon and Kelly can be divided into two parts. The Deputies want to set out in the legislation that the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration in all matters affecting a person who is minor. I have no difficulty with this provision being put into the legislation but I need to inform Members that it is in the Bill already. Section 29(1) contains a prov…

I am going to consider it.

I was saying that we do not set out in the Constitution what the best interests of the child are.

I assure Deputy Gannon that I am not saying I do not see any merit in the amendment. I do see merit in it. I have indicated to the Deputy that I am going to consider it and that I will most probably bring forward amendments in respect of it to emphasise the best interests of the child. I do not think it is without merit. The point I was making about the reference in the Constitution to "the best interests of the child" is that we can decide whether we want to define what the best interests of the child are - Deputi…

I thank all of the Deputies who contributed to the debate on the three days over which it has been held. I recognise that every Deputy who contributed made a point of emphasising that they want to acknowledge the important role played by migrants in our communities. It is commendable that every speaker did that. It is apparent that there is a very good understanding in the Chamber of the different types of immigration into Ireland. We discussed issues relating to international protection and asylum, as it is referr…

As the Taoiseach said, the Kenova Report is a difficult read but it is an absolutely essential one for all of us in this House. Everyone must face up to the wrongs of the past honestly and squarely if we are to achieve lasting peace and reconciliation on this island. The survivors and the families of the victims of the atrocities detailed in this report, and society as a whole, deserve no less. We should not seek to excuse or minimise the harm and suffering caused, no matter by whom. We must continue to seek answer…

I thank all the Deputies who contributed. It is important at the outset to ask what the purpose of legacy is and what the purpose of Denton and Kenova, which we are discussing today, was. The purpose is to provide answers for families that never got justice and whose family members were killed in brutal circumstances in what everyone can agree was a dirty war on the part of everyone who participated in it. That is the purpose of legacy. There is a further purpose, which is to try to improve and enhance reconciliati…