I know the name of a good solicitor.

A Chathaoirligh, thank you so much for those very kind words in tribute to our good friend, Billy Lawless. I would like to welcome his wife, Anne, his daughter Amy, who has travelled from Chicago, his sisters Helen and Mary, and family friends Carol and Maura. I also acknowledge the presence of Tracy Young, who you have mentioned as well, a Chathaoirligh, because if ever there was a relationship of loyalty and friendship between a member of staff of this House and their employer, it was that relationship between Bi…

I did it myself. He stood for the party in the local elections, which I did too, and he also stood against Michael D. Higgins, narrowly missing out on one occasion in 1991. Eventually, he went to Chicago and he and Anne established a great family there. It is worthwhile repeating some of the things that were said about Billy in Chicago. The head of the Irish American News , a man called Cliff Carlson, said: No one in Chicago has done more for immigrants and refugee rights than Billy. Mr. Lawless has only been in Ch…

I was interested by the Minister's evocation of the debate that occurred here when I introduced the Bill for what became the 2009 Act. He referred to the then Senator Norris's response and remarks. There was a vogue at the time to describe me in the media as a rottweiler. I have some very interesting cartoons over my mantelpiece at home showing me doing various things to other people's legs. I also remember that on one occasion, I think in Dáil Éireann, a spokesperson or Deputy from the other side of the House refe…

Yes. I cannot remember who the judge was.

That left the law in that condition. There were people who said this was a correct decision of Mr. Justice Ó Caoimh, and others who said it should be done by the Legislature and not by a High Court judge. There were suggestions that we were not to slavishly follow decisions of the House of Lords in England, whether we agreed with them or not, where they changed the substantive law of defamation to provide a new form of defence. Without wishing to delay the proceedings in the House on this Bill, it should be noted t…

-----on three occasions. In future, is that to be material in determining whether the story as published should have a defence under the revised section 26? If it is to cease to be material, that is fine, but let us tell the people that. We should let the people of Ireland know that, in the future, adverse inferences can be drawn if you say nothing. Let us tell the people that is the change we are proposing. I am putting my trust in the Minister that he is willing to take another look at section 26 because it is no…

There have been a few.

That is a good point.

What about RTÉ?

Before we put the matter to a vote, in fairness to Senator Mullen, he was not saying the purpose of this was preventative. He was saying that in many newspapers and out in RTÉ and various other places where publications happen, people would take a look at section 26 as it currently is and ask whether they are satisfying all these steps. That is what they would ask themselves. Is it enough for them to say they asked Senator McDowell for comment and he refused? They know they will not be able to rely on that in court…

There will be no obligation to come back and say, two weeks later, that by the way the Garda has dropped the investigation. Section 26 as originally proposed may have been a bit nerdy in terms of setting out all the hoops that had to be jumped through, but that was done as a result of very close political pressure – I will use that phrase – to ensure we did not sweep away the rights of persons in public life. It did not come into its present form on the back of a cigarette packet. There was huge discussion to get i…

I welcome the Taoiseach here today and to remind him that it is now 12 years since he and I stood in the studios of TV3, as it then was, defending the existence of this House, and Mary Lou McDonald and Richard Bruton, I think, were proposing its abolition. That happened then and the people of Ireland thought that this House was going to be reformed. The people of Ireland thought that but it is ten years since the Taoiseach challenged the then Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, about the failure to implement the Manning report.…

No, I think I have said everything I have to say about amendment No. 5. I just want to make the point that the House was informed on the last occasion that there were concerns in the Office of the Attorney General about the seriousness requirement being introduced into Irish law on the basis that the good name of the citizen, which is an explicit right in the Constitution, might be in some sense compromised by introducing a threshold of seriousness in respect of defamation actions. I want to repeat that I do not ag…

It was the Minister who introduced the question of insurance companies. He said he wished they would take a different and more robust attitude to claims of this kind. It was not me or any of the other Senators who raised that. He now comes in and says we cannot have a law which is dictated by insurance companies. In defence of saying that seriousness does not apply, he said that perhaps the answer lay with the attitude taken by insurance companies in not defending unserious or minor cases. I agree with the Minister…

Lasting.

I am interested in the amendments proposed by Senator Higgins. Two things occur to me that we should consider at this Stage in this House. The phrase “is likely to cause” is itself ambiguous. The Minister has probably come across cases in his practice - I certainly have - where the term “likely” has to be interpreted. To a layperson, "likely" can mean "probable". Is this a probable consequence? According to the legal dictionaries, "likely" can also mean "possible". The difference between those two, for the purposes…

Perhaps this is a first, but I was looking at AI on my phone-----

-----in the context of getting the legal meaning of the term "likely". It is stated that the term can mean "more probable than not" and that there is "a reasonable possibility". In answer to a question as to whether I could fall down the stairs, one could answer that it is a reasonable possibility. In answer to a question as to whether I will fall down the stairs, one could say that it means is I am going to fall down. The question that then needs to be asked is whether would someone take a bet on it happening at o…

Section 11 is not agreed.