Briefly, I want to reply, if I may, to the Minister's contribution. First, the information which a member of An Garda Síochána is obliged, under the Minister's text, to establish under section 13(2)(a), is "the name, address and date of birth of the person or, as the case may be, the driver of the vehicle". Those are three things which certainly are mandatory requirements of the report of a stop and search. If we are into questionnaires on the side of a street, those things have to be recorded and the reason for th…

I cannot recollect that. If I was a much younger barrister I might not have registered for VAT.

I do not know my PPS number.

The point I am making is that the PPS number would only come into play where someone was convicted and then there is the common identifier that Michael McDowell of such and such a number was convicted of assault in Dundalk District Court and the same person was commonly identified, by that number, as having engaged in theft somewhere else. It would be very clear, and should be clear, to the Garda that a repeat offender - a person who was convicted of a number of things in different places - is identified clearly as…

Very briefly, and I will finish on this-----

You have allowed the Minister in twice, a Chathaoirligh.

I am sorry, but you have allowed him in twice, a Chathaoirligh.

Is me.

I am trying to be reasonable. All I am saying is that I hear what the Minister has said but the issue is not as described by him. It is not about whether men and women are unfairly discriminated in relation to these matters. I can see that some sections of the population are more likely to feature than others. I fully accept that proposition. What I am saying, however, is that Ireland is deliberately blinding itself to the reality of the deployment of these powers in similar jurisdictions in which racial minorities…

-----are inordinately the subject of police stop-and-search powers. I fully agree with the Minister-----

-----that a blind approach is what is required, but the simple fact is that that is the same in England as well. The Home Secretary in England would say exactly the same - "I want no discrimination and I expect no discrimination" - but the facts prove otherwise.

I am.

I wish to briefly comment on the background of this. Senator Ruane is very strongly of the mind to decriminalise certain controlled drugs, and I just want to put on the record my views on this. When I occupied the position that the Minister occupies, there was quite a campaign in international magazines and the like to decriminalise, say, cannabis resin. There was a strong campaign that that should be done, and I had at that time misgivings about it. I wish to briefly put on the record what they were. First, to dec…

The Minister might perhaps enlighten me a little bit on this. I note this section is part of Part 2 of the Bill, which is headed "STOP AND SEARCH". Section 8 itself does not actually require that the stop and search power be exercised in a public place as a precondition to a member of An Garda Síochána making the demand for information provided for under section 8. I am slightly worried, I have to say, that it would enable a member of An Garda Síochána on private property to start asking people for their names and …

I am glad of that. It looked to me to be too broad.

I move amendment No. 14: In page 10, line 2, to delete “do either or both” and substitute “do any or all”. The purpose of amendment No. 14 is to make textual space for amendment No. 15. The purpose of amendment No. 15 is to widen the power to search a person to include to "search any container or wheeled carrier or luggage which the member suspects to be or have been in the control or possession of a person suspected under this section or to have been abandoned by any such person;”." It seems to me that it should n…

That is a somewhat unnecessarily absolutist approach to this. If a member of An Garda Síochána sees a number of people and comes to the conclusion that one of them may have dumped a rucksack, for example-----

I want to join the Cathaoirleach in welcoming the Minister of State, congratulating her on her very well-merited appointment and wishing her every success in that appointment. The Minister indicated, in the Minister of State’s absence, that in his view that if somebody has a pram or trolley, for example, or has had it in their possession that that is covered by the power of search of the person. I was saying to him that it was a very absolute view. It does not necessarily follow that a search of the person involves…

Again, this is an example of the Department officials taking a very absolute position. God bless them if they are right but if they are wrong that is a different matter. If a vehicle is stationary in a public place and locked and a garda suspects there could be, say, stolen property or controlled drugs inside it, has a garda the right to take out a jemmy and open the boot or to break the windows to get in? The Minister of State is saying this is covered by other legislation but I wonder if she is right about that. …

Can I put it this way? I will withdraw the amendment if the Department at least opens its mind to the possibility that it is a good idea to extend the powers of search to vehicles that are under the control of somebody. Under this provision, you can search. This is not a sort of specious thing. Section 10 reads: 10. (1) This section applies where a member who is in— (a) a public place, or (b) any other place under a power of entry authorised by law [...] has reasonable grounds to suspect that an offence specified i…