This section requires that: "The Commission shall, in respect of each person whom it recommends to tell the Minister", for justice in most cases, what is set out in paragraphs (a), (b) and (c). I am a bit mystified as to why paragraph (c) is there. It refers to, "the results of the interview of the person conducted, in accordance with section 46(2), by a panel of the Commission,". There will be a "result" of an interview. What does that mean? Is it that the person was interviewed? The paragraph also refers to, "the…

The interview is conducted by a panel. I do not know how it has a result. Presumably the panel reports to the commission what it thought or if it came to any conclusions that there was nothing much one way or the other about this person and that he or she is what he or she appears to be on paper. I am wondering what the "result" of a panel would be. This goes back to a point we have just dealt with. Are people who are in the running to be on the short-list going to be interviewed? Is there going to be some marking …

Now we are getting to the nub of the issue. It is going to be an interview of a person, providing some kind of description of the person based on the interview so that the Government can take that into account. That seems to be the only purpose it serves. At interview, Mr. Justice McDowell impressed us in the following four ways-----

-----or did not impress us in the following four ways, or was whatever. If it is to be of any assistance to the Government, it would have to be some kind of a description of the interview process and the kind of impression the candidate made on the panel, which is a subset of the commission. It would have to be reduced to writing, in some respect, and sent to the Government so that it could say "they look equally good on paper but he or she did a better interview, so we will go with that person." Is that what is be…

The result of the interview is that the person is recommended.

With respect, that is not what the section states. Clearly, if the person is recommended, he or she is on the short-list of three. The section states that the Government is to be told the result of the interview with each of the three people. If the Minister of State is going to say that this just means they are on the list in the first place, what is the purpose of the paragraph at all? If they are on a short list, they have been recommended - we know that. If the Government is entitled to see, before it makes its…

I do not take that at all and I do not think that is what this section means. If we look at paragraph (a), it states "a statement setting out the reasons it is of the opinion that the person is suitable for appointment". That is one thing the commission has to tell the Government. Paragraph (c) states it has to give the results of an interview, and the Minister of State will not tell us what that interview process is. He is saying it is for the commission to decide, but the Government must see the results of the in…

Hold on a second, we are making it a legal requirement for this commission to set out the results of an interview, in addition to the reasons it thinks the person is qualified. That is a legal requirement we are imposing on the commission. It is not good enough to say it is the choice of the commission. If there is a statutory interview process which, due to the withdrawal of Senator Ward's amendment, is mandatory if the Bill goes through, surely it must be the case that those words mean something and that the inte…

This section is definitely not agreed. In my view, this is a non-constitutional section that has no merit whatsoever. Section 51 purports that: "In advising the President in relation to the appointment of a person to a judicial office in the State, the Government shall only consider for appointment those persons who have been recommended by the Commission to the Minister under section 47." The reason I did not object to section 48 is that it does not concern constitutional appointments. The Constitution is very cle…

Yes. If the Chief Justice's position is vacant-----

There would be four judges in this group, two of whom have been elected by the majority of the Judiciary and two of whom hold office as presidents of two courts. They would decide whether a judge is eligible for promotion from now on. As I said in the case of the Supreme Court, we are now faced with a situation whereby, if this becomes law and has the meaning the Minister of State said it had on a previous occasion, either three or two persons would be recommended for a senior position, or possibly even one, theore…

Former Deputy Shane Ross argued for a version of this reform on the basis of transparency and openness. Nothing will be clearer from this as to why anybody became a judge. The unsuccessful candidates will be secret. The one thing we will know is that the Judiciary selected them, and that there were four people there as spectators, watching the process. That is what we will know from now on and we will not know who they rejected or what cliques developed among the Judiciary. We will never know those things again if …

I report progress.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. The topic I have tabled for consideration as a Commencement matter is a matter of huge importance and grave urgency. A recent report in The Irish Times confirmed my own impression of the private rented-dwelling market, which is that landlords are selling up. Some 40% of houses now on the market are as a result of landlords selling. The reason for this is appallingly obvious and comes down to the fact the Government has hopelessly mismanaged the relationship between priv…

I appreciate that this does not fall within the Minister of State's area of responsibility, and I take that into account. However, what she said reflects a litany of confessions of failure. The reality is that there has been a mass exodus of landlords from the market. They are not being attracted back by tax concessions of the kind that have been announced. Telling a landlord that he or she can depreciate the cost of a fridge over a shorter period or that pre-letting expenses will be more deductible than in the pas…

Yes, or they may have married or whatever.

I want to say a couple of things about the Bill. It does make sense for RTÉ to be divested of responsibility for the National Symphony Orchestra because I think RTÉ has to concentrate on the day job, so to speak, of getting its own finances in order and seeing its role as a broadcaster. I am strongly in favour of public sector broadcasting. I regard one of the frightening things that is happening in the United Kingdom as an agenda on the part of the Conservative Party to bring down the BBC, which is one of the grea…

I congratulate the Cathaoirleach on his election. Many nice things have been said about him today and I will not add to them, save to say I agree with all of them. I second this motion enthusiastically. Senator Mark Daly is somebody who has devoted himself to the furtherance of the status and purpose of this House ever since he was elected to it. As Senator Doherty has just said, he has his own agendas, as well as his agenda as Cathaoirleach of this House. Over the past two and a bit years, he served this House loy…

The Senator would probably have stormed ahead and got a very good vote on that basis. Nonetheless, it is the Members' decision. It is not a decision for the Whips or the Cabinet. It is the decision of Members in Dáil Éireann and it should be the Members' decision in this House. When I say this, I do not in any sense want to take away from what has happened today. I endorse every remark made about the maturity and evolution of our politics that a day such as today could take place and that what is due to happen tomo…

I really do value his friendship, impartiality, decency and gentlemanship throughout all his dealings with us. Senator Mark Daly's enthusiasm is extremely important. I have no doubt that he and the Cathaoirleach will work together as a team to ensure that this House is run in a friendly, co-operative and decent spirt. It is a great pleasure on my part, and on behalf of several colleagues, to express strong support for the motion. I hope Senator Mark Daly will continue to contribute to making this House a better pla…