Child protection comes before the dignity of the Presidency in my book and in many people's books.

I am aware of the rules and I am very respectful about how I speak about the President, but if he is wrong, he is wrong and he needs to be called out.

Will I still get something in writing giving the precise wording of the alleged rule?

Will I get in writing the precise wording of the alleged rules?

I apologise; I cannot hear with the interruptions.

Will you send me something in writing specifying the rules?

There will be further discussion about this in this House, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

I join in welcoming the ambassador of Luxembourg. If she is around next Easter, I will be delighted to sell her some of those knitted chickens with eggs in support of the apostolic works of the Elphin diocese and the wonderful humanitarian work being done by various missionaries from our parishes abroad. I did not hear whether it is a Fabergé egg she is distributing, but if she has any spare, I am always ready to receive and then declare in accordance with the rules. All joking aside, nobody quite knows when the ne…

I wish to make some general points. Amendment No. 10 amends page 57, between lines 36 and 37. I just want to find it because it relates to what I want to say. The amendment would provide that “The surrogate mother only should be allowed decide on any reduction of embryos and must not be obliged by the commissioning adults or their agents to undergo an abortion.” The Minister ran through his responses to various amendments. I would be grateful if he would detail to the House again his rationale for not accepting tha…

I understood that the Minister was going to answer the question that I asked at this point. Will the Minister answer the question I asked, which relates to a different amendment? If he does not mind, will he give us his rationale for not accepting amendment No. 10, which is for discussion at this stage? I realise it is difficult because there are many amendments. I just want to be able to think as I go along. This is the amendment that would insert that "The surrogate mother only should be allowed decide on any red…

I feel that we are in this brave new world, which I and many other people oppose, which involves, frankly, a commodification of children, as many people see it, and a deprivation of the rights of women. I realise we are talking in the context of domestic surrogacy but some of the same principles apply to the dangerous area of international surrogacy. It is important, and we had a discussion about this to some degree last week. My friend and colleague, Senator McDowell, disagrees with me on aspects of the objection …

I consider it relevant but I am happy to wait. It is a reasonable question and it deserves a careful answer. I suppose I consider it relevant because I am talking about amendment No. 12, which states: “No single man shall be allowed to undertake surrogacy.” I am talking about a situation where a single man, a biological male at least, but who may have availed of the 2015 legislation to have their preferred gender as female, would thereby be enabled as a single man. We are talking about them undertaking surrogacy in…

We are not all pro-life.

It does, but I would like to respond. I thank the Minister for his response. There are a number of charges in what he said. I am not going to take personally anything the Minister said but he introduced a note of moral judgmentalism vis-à-vis other people in his comments. I will not up the ante other than to say that I think the Minister’s moral and political vision, as exemplified by his conduct of his public role, is very stunted indeed. I regard his approach to this issue as cynical. The Minister relies excessiv…

You used those words.

I just want to address what the Minister has said, if I may. I think it is a rather sneering attitude to a position that is more correctly described as philosophical. We all have our philosophical views. Where I differ from the Minister and where he differs from me is that I believe that human life begins at conception. I believe that is a very scientific and evidentially respectable position because at that point, you have 46 chromosomes, you have new human individuality and you have momentum towards life. The Min…

We will. I am only responding to what was said, and I intend to do so respectfully. I have exposed, first of all, that the Minister's words are not borne out by reality. He has not shown respect for alternative views. He then went on to say that the position underlying the amendments here suggests that although I believe a woman on her own can raise a child, I do not believe a man on his own can do so. Of course, that is not what I believe and it is certainly not what Senator Keogan believes. It is not what the peo…

I am being very relevant.

I am talking about amendment No. 12 and why it matters, if that is of any help. When the Minister disputes my assertion that I am concerned for women's rights as part of this equation, his basis for saying so is that I disagree with abortion. However, I actually disagree with abortion partly because it hurts many women and, of course, many unborn children are killed. That is the Minister's only basis for his suggestion in respect of my credentials on women. Thankfully, I do not depend on the Minister's good opinion…

I am coming to the end of my point. I am not here to go on longer than I have to but I will answer in full each charge that has been made. It is the Minister who dishonours women’s rights when, in the legislation, he refuses to acknowledge that a child should never be deprived of a mother. That is exactly what happens here. In surrogacy, children are deprived of their birth mother and where single men or same-sex male couples are allowed to commission a child, the Minister is deliberately depriving a child of ever …