It is about time.

I would also like a bit of clarity on the latter point. I heard what Senator Sherlock said last week and I heard the Minister’s response. I did actually wonder why he used the word “unethical”. I wondered if there were some facts at the Minister’s disposal that he was not sharing with us. I could understand why the Minister might say the letter from these clinicians was incorrect. However, when he says that something is unethical, he is making a fairly serious moral charge, although it was not clear to me who the M…

In a way, it is ironic because I suspect that I would regard some of the procedures they are involved in as unethical. Nonetheless, I defend their right to not be accused of being unethical if they communicate certain beliefs about the state of things that they believe these to be true in good faith. I can only conclude, if Senator Sherlock and I are speaking about the same letter, that the Minister regards those people as having acted unethically in communicating in the way they did. The Minister is either saying …

I will add a few words. I thank the Cathaoirleach and welcome him back. I want to emphasise my support for what Senator Keogan said. I again stress that I am concerned that these provisions are happening at all and that we are providing for them at all. Regarding domestic surrogacy, if there were to be no commercial nexus it would at least be easier to try to ensure that. It is debatable as to whether one can fully ensure that there is no commercial nexus and, certainly, it is much harder in the context of internat…

I notice that these amendments are grouped and I am not entirely happy with that. Can I ask for clarification?

I would like to be able to speak to some of these amendments more sequentially.

I understand that.

Yes, it is just that I do not necessarily want to discuss them in that order. That is what I am saying.

My difficulty is that I might rather speak to some of the amendments at the point where I move them.

No, I understand that. I am just saying that I will have to go through them in a different way.

I will do my best.

I am not crying "foul".

Do not contradict me before I make an assertion. I am just saying that. When were the groupings agreed, by the way? Was it on the Order of Business?

Would they have been agreed on the Order of Business?

I probably did not hear that. I should have squawked at that point and perhaps I would have got a hearing.

That is fine. I will try and squawk in future, for all the good it might do.

Thank you for that, a Chathaoirligh. I have already spoken to amendment No. 9. There are real concerns in relation to human trafficking in connection with surrogacy. It is bad enough that certainty will exist on the passing of this legislation, but practices that we would all regard as slavery are something we should avoid entirely. I note that the Minister says that he is striking a balance. He adverts to the review after three years, but I put it to him that he could also review bringing it back to two years. He …

It was obvious last year that the Minister is entirely in facilitatory mode. It does not matter what human rights abuses are entailed here. The adults shall have what they want. Amendment No. 27 is obviously the international surrogacy version of the amendments to which I already spoke. I propose the deletion in page 77 of lines 4 to 6, which refer to a surrogate mother who is an EU citizen and who has been habitually and lawfully resident in that jurisdiction for not less than five years immediately preceding her …

I have just put it to the Minister that there is a risk of the development of a surrogacy industry. We know the international context here. We heard what the Ukrainian situation is. Senator Seery Kearney does not like the language but the question is if what is said is true. That is more important than courtesy. There are human rights at stake here. There are people being violated and exploited here. I know Senator Seery Kearney and the Minister do not accept that but that is the experience that cannot be denied. I…

That is what is at work here.