We now have the honour of having our session chaired by the Cathaoirleach of Seanad Éireann, my friend and colleague, Senator Buttimer. People often come in and out quickly as guests and this is a very important issue we are discussing today because it touches on human rights and our respect for human dignity. I am delighted to have the students here. I am happy to give way to the Minister if he wishes to speak.

This is misinformation.

Low standards in high places.

No, not true. The Minister is lying. That is a lie.

I will do my best, but if it is claimed that Senator Clonan said people were intimidating, when he did not say that-----

Or respecting the truth as well.

Who trusts the HSE?

I will deal with you.

I will deal with your-----

I will put your arguments in their place in a moment.

I will expose your dishonesty in a moment.

Your approach is vacuous and unprincipled.

I will be temperate and I certainly will not mind if the Minister interrupts me or wants to offer a point of information at any point.

I regard the Minister's approach to be completely dishonest. He represents a Government that is completely dishonest, that corrals power and listens only to certain insiders. This Minister has an appalling record of not engaging in any way with pro-life people, respectful people who have a case to make. We saw the completely corrupt way in which he drove the three-year review of the abortion legislation. Does the Minister want to offer a point of information?

I will. The Minister presided over a completely corrupt process, whereby the three-year review on abortion was supposed to be carried out by an independent person. He gave that commitment at a certain point. He said there would be public recruitment of the person. In the end the Government chose a person who was not independent and who had expressed views in favour of changes to our abortion law. The later attempt to shore up that inadequacy and corruption in the process was to say that it meant the person had to b…

In response to what has been said, I will take the Minister's points first, but more important were the contributions made by my friends in the Seanad, Senators Clonan, McGreehan and Gavan. I am also grateful to Senator Keogan for her courageous intervention. The Minister made a big play of the fact that I put it to him fair and square last week that he had not managed to give us any chapter and verse, in the way one would expect in a democracy in advance of a big change to the law, on something quite unprecedented…

The Minister can only offer in a point of information to me.

Is it a point of order or a point of information?

If it is a point of order it is to the Cathaoirleach and if it is a point of information it is to me.

It is a point of order, so.