Some of them may be-----

-----standing still in the relevant spot, as I have said. I thank Senator McGreehan for her relevant and helpful intervention because it reminds me these people could have a story themselves. They may have an abortion story. There are women who deeply regret their abortions and who regret that the State and the apparatus of State did nothing to point them in the direction of more positive alternatives. There are some - not all - who have had adverse mental health sequelae. There are some who are spiritual or some w…

I move amendment No. 1: In page 3, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following: “ “designated institution of higher education” has the same meaning as it has in the Higher Education Authority Act 2022;”. Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach Gníomhach, agus cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. This amendment provides that in page 3, between lines 18 and 19, that the words "designated institution of higher education" have the same meaning as they have in the Higher Education Authority Act 2022. Amendment No. 5 propos…

The Minister's reply has left me with many questions. I am surprised at the extent of it. I will start by keeping it logical. Not all of what is in this Bill is equally bad. Section 2 states that a person shall not, without lawful authority, in a safe access zone, engage in conduct that is likely to obstruct or impede another person from accessing a relevant healthcare premises. I can support that. Any reasonable person would. Nobody is in favour of anybody being obstructed or impeded. Let us be clear: what is effe…

I am, because this is all part of-----

I am trying not to. We are talking about a life-and-death issue, a Chathaoirligh Gníomhaigh.

I will, and I do not intend to take longer than is necessary. My colleague, Senator McDowell, had to take considerably longer recently on the referendum legislation, which was also rushed through. I will do my best to keep to the point. My point is that we do not have abortion clinics in Ireland. Therefore, if a person in any given situation wants to promote or get out a pro-life message or encourage or offer help to somebody, and we are told, and we all agree, that abortion is never an easy decision, the logic bei…

I will. That was just a passing comment. The parallels, in terms of how closed the Government is these days to voices of dissent on serious and important issues, will not be lost on people. This legislation is about crushing dissent. The Minister talks about Ireland being the most progressive and advanced in the area of healthcare and women's healthcare. I would love for that to be the case, but what is progressive about killing a little child? Why is it acceptable to present abortion as healthcare simply because h…

No, I have not.

Where is the insult?

You are the one who is lying now.

Yes, please.

Yes, although I have to say he came very close there. First of all, Minister, your strategy here is to come out fighting and to put on the false umbrage of the wronged politician. I did not insult you personally but I am certainly insulting what you are doing because it is the worst kind of public service to seek to crush dissent on a life-and-death issue in the way that you are doing. Shame on you, the Government and everybody involved with this tawdry legislation, which, I believe, may well be unconstitutional. S…

Yes, and sometimes they are campaigners not being honest, Minister, and you are not being honest if you deny that.

What you have failed, Minister, to acknowledge-----

What you have failed to acknowledge is what I said, which is you have not had a single complaint, or else you would have told us by now, from a reputable health-providing institution.

You have failed to acknowledge-----

Yes.

That is not true when it comes to giving evidence for a point of view that you hold. Say, for example, the Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris, said that there is a lacuna in our law and that we need to legislate because there is a real danger of people being intimidated when they access abortion facilities. The opposite was the message we got. If Mr. Harris had said it, it would be remiss of the Minister not to quote him chapter and verse. The rule against naming people in this House has to do with insulting them or c…

It is not an absolute rule. I can quote William Butler Yeats, and it is not just because he is dead. Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to quote somebody. I challenge the Minister to quote anybody who is not a campaigner in one way or another for extended abortion rights, including members of the medical profession, or somebody who has skin in the game. However, what he has failed to do is to quote any civil authority or any healthcare institution and I find that remarkable. With almost admirable brass neck, he a…