I welcome the Minister of State. I also welcome the departing students and visitors from the Gallery because it struck me as I was listening that we are talking about a society that cares for everybody and includes people at all stages at life. People at the other end of life need nursing home care for various reasons. It is not always possible for families to care for elderly loved ones at home. Care needs can be complex and so on. We have a duty as a society to make sure we work to honour the dignity of the nursi…

In terms of the funding, yes.

I am not talking about the neglect of persons. I am talking about the issue of neglecting the financial needs.

I am delighted to give clarity. I was referring to neglecting the financial needs. By funding one sector advantageously compared with the other, then by definition that is neglecting the financial needs of the lesser funded sector. I am not accusing anybody of neglecting people at a personal level. However, there are consequences to under-funding and there is a funding issue around nursing home care. Looking at the figures another way, the HSE nursing homes receive an average fee per resident that is 60% above that…

Déanaim comhbhrón le muintir Vicky Phelan freisin agus le muintir an Dr. Éamon Phoenix – go ndéana Dia trócaire orthu. Rinne an Dr. Phoenix sár-obair mar a luaite. In response to what my friend, Senator Conway, had to say, I will point out that everybody dies with dignity. The question always is whether people's dignity is respected. Nothing disrespects people's dignity like making them feel as if they are a burden in life. That is one of the single biggest fears people have about euthanasia, assisted suicide, assi…

One of the most fundamental freedoms we enjoy as citizens of a democracy is freedom of expression. That is one of the things that marks us out from countries like China and many others that disregard human rights constantly. People are free in our society to express their thoughts freely, subject to the minimum of restrictions. The real test of our tolerance as people is our willingness to accept and take on board that people will express different points of view. It is not the people who trenchantly express points…

I just wanted to put that on the record. It is important that we scrutinise this legislation carefully in the coming weeks-----

-----to see if it does indeed get the balance right. The scrutiny is only beginning.

We would all want to wish Rishi Sunak the very best as he takes the helm in Britain. Let us hope that his term as Prime Minister will be one where there is a restoration in the quality of British-Irish relations. Let us hope that we are now entering a period of stability and greater rapprochement and understanding. Hopefully there can be important dialogue about issues such as the Troubles amnesty legislation and the Northern Ireland protocol in order that, at a time when the world faces so many challenges on diffe…

I thank the Minister for his response. I have not had sight of it. I would like to consider it carefully. It seems to me, however, that he is basing this entirely on a certain view of the demands of equality and autonomy and a certain interpretation of what they mean in this particular circumstance. What he is saying, basically, is that he wants a pregnant woman to be in exactly the same position as any other decision-maker - in other words, people who are not pregnant. The point I made to him on the previous occas…

The Minister misunderstands the basis for my argument. I am not saying that what he is bringing about would be considered under the law as a termination of pregnancy and I am not arguing, at this point, against the provisions of our abortion law generally. I am drawing the Minister's attention to what our abortion law currently provides and arguing that what he is proposing to do does not follow the logic of it. He talks about equality but there is no equality between the woman who has a child that has gone beyond …

That is agreed.

The Minister is forgetting something. I am not proposing to create anything; I am trying to keep what is already there. The Minister is the one who is proposing to step down a protection established in the law, which is a modest enough one, that is, the simple idea that the presumption is in favour of preserving life. That is all. Instead the Minister is potentially leaving a family with a situation where, in already stressful circumstances, they have to make an application to the court to dispute or ask that in th…

Let us try to make clear what is being said here. Is the Minister saying that because the 2015 legislation has not been commenced? The 2015 legislation provides that there is a presumption in favour of continuing treatment where not to do so - let me make sure that I am not confusing the House and myself. What is being deleted, among other things, is the following provision in section 85(6)(a) of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015: Where a directive-maker lacks capacity and is pregnant, but her advanc…

Would the Minister mind repeating that last point?

Would he mind repeating? Just wind it back, if he does not mind, because we all agree that this is important. I just did not quite grasp it.

What does that mean?

So he Minister is leaving it up to the judgment now, which in circumstances-----

I am sorry. I will wait until I get called on to speak. I apologise. I did not mean to. If I may-----

I think there is an element of confusion in what the Minister is saying. I can understand him when he says that when the eighth amendment was in place it was seen to be required that there would be this clear statement but what he is ignoring is just because it is maybe not as required now at the constitutional level, that does not mean that it is not desirable. As I said, the existing legislation on abortion clearly points to a certain attitude to the unborn after 12 weeks. That is the first thing. Human decency p…