A Leas-Chathaoirligh, if you-----

Can I just make a point?

I am about to finish. If the Leas-Chathaoirleach stops me from making my point, allows the heckler to make her point and prevents me from responding, that cannot be correct parliamentary practice.

Let me just answer the point then.

Please, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. You know what is going on here.

Let us be fair.

I am not going to go on until-----

I did not call anybody a liar, as the Leas-Chathaoirleach knows.

I ask for the protection of Leas-Chathaoirleach against the misrepresentation of what has just been said.

The point I was trying to make was that in all of these months until now, it has not been suggested by anybody that the only meaning of independent is independent of Government. Anybody looking at how legislation is operating would know that it would have to be somebody who does not have skin in the game. I conclude by asking the Minister to reflect on the fact that he does not just do his duty to the people of Ireland when he represents what he believes to be the majority opinion. He has an obligation to full trut…

-----start to listen to both sides on the abortion issue. I say that as respectfully as I can, but the situation is very serious and regrettable.

Does the Senator want the full report?

I wish to speak to this section. My question is prompted by the meaning of a part of the section. I listened very carefully to what Senator Boylan had to say about listening to women. I agree 100% that we must never tire of listening to people on all sides of this issue and to people who have had personal experiences. I am certainly open to that, and I can understand that people might feel intimidated by the very presence of a person whom they know to have a different view. That is a problematic thing in a democrac…

No.

It would still highlight something very dramatic, though, would it not?

So it does not matter how wrong we get the legislation.

There is a lot of space in the middle between those two extremes. I think Senator O'Reilly will agree with that and take my point.

I am up for that.

What about advising?

I thank Senator Higgins for trying to give me reassurance and I respect what Senator Pauline O'Reilly has to say. However, if it were to be the case that only people who are in favour of legislation in some form would ever make observations about the unsought side effects or unforeseen consequences contained in a particular legislative proposal, we would not be doing our job at all. I am entitled to test these provisions and try whatever intellect I have in applying it to them. It is the same for everybody here. I …