Will the Leader take a point?

I thank her for her comprehensive answer. I want to make it clear I am not having a go at her. I do not wish to do that. She is constrained, as the Leader of the Seanad always is, by the logic of power around here. I also support that legislation. I am talking about the Government, rather than the Leader. She has to do what she has to do. I do not care if everybody at the leaders' meetings agreed to it. This is always bad practice. The only time legislation should be taken at all Stages is in an emergency situation…

When will the legislation commence?

When will it commence when enacted?

I move recommendation No. 3: In page 10, between lines 10 and 11, to insert the following: “ 5. Within six months of the enactment of this Act, the Minister shall lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report on the operation of section 195 of the Principal Act, which shall include an analysis of the amount of revenue foregone as a result of the authorisation of exemptions under that section to serving or former public office holders (within the meaning of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005), and to indi…

The proposed recommendation No. 3 relates to the recommendation I sought to introduce on Committee Stage and is similar to recommendation No. 2, which has been ruled out of order. I note your ruling, a Chathaoirligh, and the explanation which I received from you on the grounds that it could involve a charge upon the people or upon the Revenue, as per Standing Order 41. I note that you stated that it has long been held by successive cathaoirligh, and in the other House, that the reference to a charge on the people r…

More honoured in the breach.

I thank the Minister of State for his extensive response. He covered a lot of ground at great speed. It did him no harm. I will certainly read up and reflect on everything he has said. I am very grateful to him for establishing the number of taxpayers with incomes in excess of €100,000 who availed of this exemption and for providing that figure of €1.7 million, which is a significant sum of money which could do a significant amount of good and which does not need to be in the pockets of people who have earned more …

It is at least €1.7 million because the figure does not include those who may be on very significant salaries just under €100,000 who are availing of this tax exemption and who may be public officeholders and so on. I ask the Minister of State and the Government to look at this issue. There is currently a significant drain on the public purse, to say the very least. People are making enormous sacrifices, many people are up against it and we are borrowing shedloads of money, which will have big consequences in the f…

If I may address this point, I had arranged with the Cathaoirleach that I would do so. There is an error in the ruling. This is an issue the Minister of State may also very well be interested in. The purpose of the amendment is to address an abuse, as I see it, in the current availing of the artists' tax exemption. The effect of my recommendation, of course, because it is not an amendment being a money Bill, would be that a provision in the tax code that allows those responsible for works of artistic or cultural me…

Here is the point. This was a provision of the tax code designed to prevent artists from starving in the garret. The reason I believe this is wrongly decided is that Standing Order 41, under which the recommendation has been ruled out of order, states: "An amendment to a Bill, which could have the effect of imposing or increasing a charge upon the people or upon the revenue, may not be moved save by way of Government amendment." Obviously we will have to allow that we are not talking about amendments here.

Here is the point. What it states is "which could have the effect of imposing or increasing a charge upon the people". It does not state imposing or increasing a charge upon people and it does not state imposing or increasing a charge upon any person.

That is not the point. The issue is not what the recommendation is about. The issue is whether this is a recommendation that can be properly excluded under the terms of Standing Order 41. If the Leas-Chathaoirleach bears with me, I will explain. A charge "upon the revenue" clearly means a lessening of revenue coming in. This recommendation of mine does not propose a tax break.

Please, Leas-Chathaoirleach, if you do not mind bearing with me. A charge upon the people means a public expense. An increase of a charge upon the people means an increase in that public expense. The narrowing of an exemption under the tax code is not the imposition or the increase of a public expense. It is not a charge upon the people.

I am happy to go with that but I will say in conclusion-----

We are dealing with a situation here where there are already considerable restrictions on what the Seanad may do on money Bills and that is understandable because we are not as directly elected as the Dáil. In this context it surely means within this limitation we should, therefore, otherwise have the broadest latitude. Where there is an ambiguity in the meaning of the Standing Order, it surely has to be resolved against those who would impose the burden. That would certainly be the precedent in contract law where …

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. I do realise he has to do what he has to do within the limitations imposed by the fact the Cathaoirleach wrote me the letter, as it were. I thank Senator Higgins for her intervention on this point. In general terms, we are already very constrained in that we are only allowed to propose recommendations.

The section should not pass in my view without a recommendation of this type being included. As Senators will be aware, the so-called artists' tax exemption was originally introduced by Charles Haughey, the former Taoiseach, when he was Minister for Finance in 1969. When he spoke later in his life, in an interview in 2003, he spoke about the thinking behind this exemption. He said it was designed to address the "sad history of our creative people going abroad for economic reasons or from what they felt was an unsym…

I promise-----

I have no intention of detaining the House. I sat through a very interesting and important exchange on the previous section. We have had a problem before with legislation going through the House in very short order where Ministers do not have time to engage with proposals that might be the subject of a Government amendment on Report Stage. I ask the Leas-Chathaoirleach's indulgence briefly. I promise not to repeat anything. Artists' income is often low and infrequent. We must work to prevent people with creative ta…