Please. This is really important.

We cannot and we will not, and I shall not and I did not. That is my point.

No. I was accused of nothing bad by the Minister of State.

If the Minister of State came close to accusing me of something bad, it was of being somewhat irresponsible in referring to an incident which, were it to be delved into, might disclose the identity of a particular person. My response to that is important, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, and I ask you to let me make it. I will make it very clearly. If you were to ask me off the top of my head who that person is, I am not sure I could say with clarity who it is. The name of any such person simply did not enter my head in prepa…

Here is the point, though. Our job here is to shape policy and to make legislation in pursuit of that policy. If there is a relevant case that illustrates why change of legislation is extremely important, it simply cannot be the case, under any reasonable interpretation of the role of a legislator, that I may not instance a particular situation which highlights the urgency of change. That simply cannot be the case just because some person might ask in whose case that situation arose. It is not our business to talk …

No, this is really important, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

I absolutely insist on it, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. It cannot be the case that a Member of the Oireachtas-----

I shall not do so, but I insist-----

I think you are getting bad advice, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. It cannot be the case that a Member of the Oireachtas is constrained from illustrating the purpose-----

I ask you to think very carefully, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, and I ask the Minister of State to think very carefully-----

-----about seeking to obstruct any Member of the Dáil or Seanad from referring to-----

I have not finished, but I will finish shortly. It simply cannot be the case that a Member of the Dáil or Seanad would be obstructed from referring to a factual situation which is not sub judice and goes to the relevance of the recommendation that is being made. It cannot be the case-----

I fully agree with him-----

I fully agree with him, but where I disagree with the Minister of State is the suggestion that I may not identify a particular situation that is illustrative of the need for change-----

Sorry, there is no other possible inference that I can draw from what the Minister of State said.

Before we put any question on the section, I ask the Minister of State to acknowledge the point that I am making, which is that while I am under a moral duty, as part of my obligations and responsibilities as a legislator, not to engage in the naming of people who might be embarrassed or disadvantaged-----

I am still on my feet and I am asking to be allowed to make a point-----

I promise that I am making an important point here. I am making a point that goes to-----

No, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. This goes to my prerogatives, not just as a Member of Seanad Éireann, but the right of every Deputy and Senator to advert to a particular factual situation where it is illustrative of the case-----

No. There is one final point I want to make before you put any such question and before anyone else chooses to speak on this. I ask the Minister of State to respond to the point that I am making. I agree with the Minister of State that I should not name names, but the Minister of State might want to clarify that I should be within my rights to refer to a situation. The mere fact that there is a uniqueness to an incidence-----