I thank the Minister of State for coming here to take this Commencement matter. It relates to Westbank orphanage in Greystones, County Wicklow. I have raised the need for the Minister to explore all options to provide supports and redress for the survivors affected and by persons who availed of its services. This organisation is very well known. This matter has been well documented on current affairs programmes on RTÉ radio and television. Everyone shakes their head and says it is all shocking. You meet people in h…

I thank the Minister of State. The one line that jumps off the page in his official written response is that the Westbank was not generally regarded as a mother and baby home but, rather, as an orphanage. What is the difference? Abuse is abuse. Emotional abuse, physical abuse or sexual abuse in any setting, whether in a State school, this building or anywhere else, is not acceptable and justice has to be done at the end of the day. I welcome and will take up the Minister of State's invitation to collaborate and wor…

I thank the Minister of State.

The first issue I want to raise is the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Bill 2025. The Government has proposed that all Stages of the Bill will be guillotined in this Chamber today, but we do not have to agree with that. It is up to the Members to decide. We are the Upper House and a revising Chamber. We are meant to revise legislation. It was 5 p.m. yesterday when the time for amendments to the Bill closed. This is an important Bill. I will not talk about the substantive issues of the Bill, because it would not b…

I welcome the Minister. I do not think I have had the opportunity since he became Minister to welcome him and wish him well. I have served two terms on the Oireachtas joint committee on housing. With regard to Rebuilding Ireland and Housing for All, we have just talked them out. I know there are challenges and difficulties. I am not going to be a hurler on the ditch, hurl abuse and say everyone is failing because they are not. There are so many facets to the whole housing issue and I genuinely wish the Minister wel…

I wish to speak on this. This is a group of amendments. The Leas-Chathaoirleach ruled one of the amendments, which was in my name, out of order.

I wished to indicate in respect of an earlier amendment, which I would like to speak on briefly. When I looked at the debate in the Dáil and the commentary in the stenographers’ report, the reasons for the ruling out of order of amendments were missing. As the Leas-Chathaoirleach will know, it is provided for that Deputies can make a request of the Ceann Comhairle in that regard. It did not happen there for some reason, but it is going to happen here under my watch. It is important that the Leas-Chathaoirleach read…

One thing about this Bill is in respect of those who are excluded. There are too many people excluded from this legislation. The Minister talks about Sage and I welcome all of that, and also the advocate. This morning I had a Commencement matter in respect of Westbank in Greystones, at the heart of the Tánaiste's constituency. I have a substantial file on communication and promises by people in respect of Westbank. They have been excluded. We know that the mother and baby homes commission recommended they be includ…

Thank you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

Just for the record, it is important that if an amendment has been ruled out of order that it is read into the record because it puts it in context.

I also extend a welcome to Councillor O'Heney and everyone in the Gallery. I will refer to the section. It is very interesting. I opened earlier by talking about the consultation with survivors of institutional abuse and the themes and issues that were addressed in July 2019. It is now 2025 but back then, in 2019, the issue of access to the HAA medical card was raised. There is nothing new here. There are budgetary processes involved but let us not cod ourselves; the will is not there to give access to that card. T…

I hear what the Minister is saying but let us be honest. There are caps on the funding and the money is not realistic. There are caps on the health assistance. The Minister made the point about the HAA and the special needs. Mental health is a health issue and it is very hard to quantify that. There are people who want mental health supports and cannot afford them. It is expensive, there are long lists and there is the educational stuff. These are all caps. I hear what the Minister is saying but, as she has identif…

I am conscious of time. The Minister made the point about winding down to provide the supports. We do not have to wind down. We can wind down Caranua. We should have been providing supports anyway. The supports should never have been conditional on Caranua. We know they were processed. We know people went through a process of redress and were interviewed, etc. These are most basic supports. Caranua could have done anything, or it might never have been established, but these supports should have always been forthcom…

That is really interesting. There is a divergence now between the many millions of euro and €50,000. The Minister thinks that was-----

What I would say, because it is my intention to pursue it, is that there should be an audit and an investigation. I do not know if that is the Committee of Public Accounts or if it has that remit - I do not know that yet - but I certainly will be looking for it and I ask the Minister to promote the idea. Accountability is really important with regard to the administration of any funds, be they public or private or religious or non-religious. Therefore, there will clearly have to be an assessment of how that money w…

I acknowledge and agree with the points made by Senator Stephenson. She mentioned Philomena's law, which is being debated in Westminster and is very important. Michelle O'Neill had an article in the Irish Post the other day in which she talked about the new redress scheme being rolled out by the Executive. It may catch some people in the North who spent a considerable time in institutions in this State. I spoke this morning about a person in Armagh who is in that situation. People like that may fall under a UK redr…

The Minister spoke about treating people fairly. A payment of €3,000 is not treating people fairly. I do not care about other schemes and keeping things equal between them. There have been many other unfair schemes. We are talking about this scheme and these particular issues. The Minister is saying, in effect, that €3,000 will have the same value in 20 years' time as it has today. She knows it is a cod and a joke and is not treating people fairly. She has accepted no amendments so far and it seems clear she will n…

I move amendment No. 16: In page 8, after line 37, to insert the following: “(6) The payments for health supports shall be subject to a review on an annual basis as the Bill currently provides for payment of €3,000 to a former resident.”. I pursued all of this debate when we discussed amendment No. 15, which I am sure the Minister noticed, and I will not repeat myself. Our next amendment is No. 19 and I take on board what the Minister said. She might accept this one. She said that she likes to take on board some am…

I thank the Civil Engagement Group and Senator Higgins for introducing this all-encompassing, clever amendment which covers everything we have talked about. It is about accountability and the Minister coming back within 12 months of the passing of the Bill. I hope the Minister does not say this is not possible. For some reason that I do not know, nothing is possible. That is really important because there is learning from this. The Minister may be able to enlighten us in 12 months' time about the deed done on 5 Jun…

I will recap on three things. I am encouraged by the Minister's favourable response, but I want to be clear about something. On amendment No. 16, she is not in a position to change that in terms of a review. On amendment No. 19, she stated she will work collaboratively with me, and I will do so with her. I give her that commitment. She will come up with some suggestion for Report Stage. Is that correct?