Dail Éireann · 2023-12-07
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I know the Minister of State partly answered this in responding to Deputy Ó Laoghaire but I want a further update on the progress made in the claim for pay parity by Tús and RSS supervisors. While RSS and Tús supervisors are employees of the individual implementing bodies and neither the Department nor the State is the employer of this group of workers, officials in my Department continue to hold regular meetings with representative associations to discuss employment-related matters.
My Department officials have been engaging with the union and employing companies’ representatives in relation to a claim seeking pay parity for Tús and RSS supervisors with CE supervisors. Furthermore, those on CE schemes, as the Minister of State mentioned earlier, get a gratuity on retirement, while there is nothing for RSS or Tús supervisors.
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I know the Minister of State partly answered this in responding to Deputy Ó Laoghaire but I want a further update on the progress made in the claim for pay parity by Tús and RSS supervisors. This has been going on a long time and people feel they are being stonewalled. The fact there are two priority questions on it this morning gives an indication of how important we think it is.
I again acknowledge the important role RSS and Tús supervisors play in supporting the delivery of key services to local communities across the country and in providing valuable opportunities to participants. I assure the Deputy that my Department is very conscious of the vital role of supervisors within these work programmes.
While RSS and Tús supervisors are employees of the individual implementing bodies and neither the Department nor the State is the employer of this group of workers, officials in my Department continue to hold regular meetings with representative associations to discuss employment-related matters. In 2023, all supervisors employed in our employment programmes received a 5% pay increase. My Department officials have been engaging with the union and employing companies’ representatives in relation to a claim seeking pay parity for Tús and RSS supervisors with CE supervisors.
As I said in my earlier reply on this matter, there is a difference in the supervisor roles: specifically, CE supervisors have a key role in drawing up and supervising individual participant learning and development plans. We would expect these differences in scope to be reflected in the service fees paid to the service providers. As a consequence, my Department, as funder of these schemes, and the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform are considering the complexities involved in addressing this issue. My officials will continue to liaise with the representative groups on this matter.
I assure the Deputy my Department values the work undertaken by all supervisors and the great contribution they provide to all participants and communities throughout the State.
I thank the Minister of State. He stated there is a difference in the scope of the work being done. We recognise the work is not identical but it is broadly similar. I have spoken to a number of supervisors and there is little difference. Many workers from RSS and Tús progress onto CE schemes. A supervisor on a CE scheme after ten years gets about €42,000, while one on an RSS or Tús scheme gets about €35,000. There is a huge difference in pay. Furthermore, those on CE schemes, as the Minister of State mentioned earlier, get a gratuity on retirement, while there is nothing for RSS or Tús supervisors. There is a massive difference in pay and conditions for a small difference in the scope of the work they do. The Minister of State mentioned a 5% increase. That was welcome but it was across the board and does nothing for pay parity.
I am loath to get into figures, numbers and the details of negotiations. It would not be helpful to anyone. We are talking. We recognise there is an issue. The Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and I have proven in the past couple of years that CE, Tús and RSS supervisors have legitimate arguments to make on pay rates and the gratuity issue, which has been resolved. I do not want to be seen to be stonewalling. I have tried to keep an open door in relation to issues around pay parity, as have my officials. I cannot go into too much detail on what is going on but talks are ongoing. We have proven ourselves amenable to other processes in the past two years. We will continue in good faith in the discussions.
I am glad to hear the Minister of State continues in good faith but he does not want to speak about figures. I understand that but that is the reality of people’s pay packets. That is what is in their back pocket at the end of the week or month and that is why I and others are asking these questions.
The Minister of State will be aware a number of successful public meetings were held earlier this year. There was one in Athenry, one in Castlebar and one scheduled for Sligo, which was put off in order that these tripartite talks could take place.
I am willing to accept the Minister of State’s bona fides on this but it still seems there is a blockage holding up progress. At this point, the RSS and Tús supervisors feel they are being stonewalled, not perhaps by the Minister of State but by the system. As far as they are concerned, the system is the system. I ask that the Minister of State makes every effort to move this as quickly as possible.
I know there was a meeting scheduled with officials for last month. There was a genuine reason that did not happen. There was no policy decision not to meet them or to wait and hold off. That was not the case. I think and hope, but do not want to guarantee here on the floor, that the meeting will be rescheduled for some time before Christmas. It depends on people’s availability.
I meet with the key officials weekly on CE, RSS and Tús. We are in close communication. There is a reason we are at the table. It is that we recognise the reality of the figures the Deputy mentioned. There is a case to be made but they are not exactly the same roles, notwithstanding the legitimate argument being made.