The number one reform that would make the most difference is ensuring that apprentices at least get the national minimum wage from the start. That is not a radical demand. I was previously on the committee and this came up with everybody we spoke to - apprentices having to pay loads of money for tools and so on and not even getting the minimum wage. At the very least, let us give apprentices the minimum wage.

As I said to Deputy Eoghan Kenny a few moments ago, craft and construction apprenticeships are central to delivering vital infrastructure, including housing, and sustaining economic growth. As Minister, I have prioritised annual investment in apprenticeship delivery, which has more than doubled since my Department was established, going from €184 million in 2020 to over €415 million in 2026. Our apprenticeship system has, accordingly, continued to grow. Overall registrations increased by 78%, from just under 5,500 five years ago to just under 10,000 today, with craft registrations in particular rising significantly in that period.

We have a programme for Government target of 12,500 new registrations by 2030, with two thirds in craft and construction-related areas. I have recently secured Cabinet approval for a new action plan for apprenticeships to support further growth in the apprenticeship sector, attract more young people into careers through apprenticeships, and pivot more people towards the apprenticeship route as an equal alternative to the CAO path and the traditional higher educational route, one that can lead to a very satisfying, rewarding career in many ways.

On the Deputy's particular point about the wage of an apprentice, I take the point on board that is often raised. It is significantly more than any student will receive, which is zero. A student does not get paid at all and an apprentice does get paid as they progress through. It is not unique among occupations to receive no or little funding by way of payment during training. When I trained as a barrister - as a devil - we were not paid either. It is not unique to apprentices. There are many professions where this happens to people who go in at the early stages.

Typically, it begins to surpass the minimum wage after second year. By the time someone is out working in the economy post qualification, the median wage is about €915 within two years of qualification, which compares very favourably with alternative pathways that other students and young people might follow. I would again stress to anyone thinking about it that it is a very attractive and rewarding career option for many to go into.

That is a bit of a hard case to make to young people who are looking at their options and see that they will be getting paid €7.67 an hour in the first year, or just over half the national minimum wage. I am in favour of an increased student grant and so on, but the difference is that these people are working. They are creating value for their employers. It is a real obstacle. According to Mr. Ben Friel, who was at the Joint Committee on Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science when I was a member, many apprentices dropped out in the first year because they could not afford the tools and were expected to pay big upfront costs. The low pay, along with the fees and the price of tools, was creating many barriers to entry.

We introduced a Bill to scrap the exemption for apprentices to ensure that everyone would get the minimum wage. I was contacted by multiple apprentices saying their situations were not doable and they could not exist. These are often people with kids - we heard statistics on that. Many of them are in their 20s or older. They are not young people. This is not a bit of pocket money. They deserve to get the minimum wage at the very least.

I think that is fair. We are trying through Government policy to encourage people at different life stages to enter the apprenticeship journey. I agree that it is not just young people coming out of school and going into apprenticeships any more. There are people crossing over. I met a number of apprentices, including people mid-career and at mid-life stages, some of whom had families and other commitments, so I get that. It is true, though, that if you take the usual alternative scenario of a full-time higher education course, you could have a flat with four people sharing together - two apprentices and two students - and the apprentices will be getting €7 or €8 an hour while the students will not be getting anything per hour. If we look at the alternative pathways, apprentices are being paid something as they go through and that increases in line with their training. There is a balance as well, because the employer has to be incentivised to take on the apprentice. For any trainee, they are probably costing more at the start than they are giving back in terms of useful output, given that it takes a while for them to become productive in their workforce.

We engage with the trade unions all the time and have a framework in place where the trade unions sit down and set rates in partnership with the employers and the educational framework. That is the model we have followed to date.

There is a framework in place where the trade unions and employers engage together on setting rates. The relevant legislation falls under the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment as opposed to my own Department. The minimum wage laws are part of the Industrial Training Act 1967 and the Labour Services Act 1987. All apprentices are, of course, employees. During the on-the-job phase of an apprenticeship, they are paid a wage by their employer. Neither SOLAS nor my Department is responsible for setting the rate of pay.

In the case of craft apprenticeships, minimum rates of pay are typically determined through that collective bargaining arrangement, subject to the normal dispute resolution mechanisms and are often underpinned by sectoral employment orders. We have well-established mechanisms engaging in partnership with the representative bodies to set these rates. That is the practice that has been there for some time. Perhaps there is a conversation that has to happen across the partners in that system. Certainly, it is beyond the remit of my Department exclusively or even at all in some cases. I hear the point the Deputy raises, and it is fair one. It is a balancing act. All the parties are at the table already setting those rates and agreeing sectoral employment orders.