I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 174 together.

As recognised in the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces and accepted by the Government, the Defence Forces need to be capable of delivering military effects across the cyber domain. To this end, my Department published a high-level action plan for the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces. This included recommendations relating to the Defence Forces' cyber defence functions. As a result, the Defence Forces have established a joint cyber defence command. This command will be able to conduct full-spectrum cyberspace operations to robustly defend against cyber threats, support Defence Forces operations at home and overseas and enhance our national cyber defence resilience and contingent capabilities.

A Defence Forces cyber defence strategy 2024 to 2027 was published last year. This strategy sets out a comprehensive roadmap to ensure that our Defence Forces achieve operational capability in the new domain. To give effect to this strategy, Defence Forces specialists have been assigned to the operation of this unit. I very recently approved a new Defence Forces officer to that role at the higher rank of brigadier general level. In addition, my Department engaged with the Public Appointments Service to recruit civilian cyber specialists to embed them in the joint cyber defence command. It is intended that such posts will be filled as soon as possible. We are funded to fill them; we are just going through the recruitment process. I am satisfied that from a defence perspective we are now on a positive trajectory to ensure that this new cyber defence command unit is well positioned.

We published the high-level action plan in relation to the Commission on the Defence Forces. This included recommendations to create a joint cyber defence command that should manage Defence Forces IT services, CIS and cyber defence. It recommended that we update and publish the cyber defence strategy in line with best international practice and that we provide for additional specialist personnel at part of a joint cyber defence command managing cyber defence, defence IT services and CIS. All actions have been progressed. We now need to build on that in the time ahead. To ensure the new unit has the appropriate support infrastructure, my Department approved the development of a dedicated IT operations and cybersecurity block in McKee Barracks through the refurbishment of an existing building. McKee was chosen as the location to consolidate a number of current operations and provide the necessary high-end infrastructure requirements to support future operations in the cyber domain. The project is at design stage. The design team was appointed in June. The project will cost around €1.9 million. It is proposed to procure a construction contract by way of a restricted tender competition. This facility will provide for the increasing recruitment needs in terms of space of the joint cyber defence command.

We welcome the progress that has been made. A lot more personnel will be needed over time, particularly when you look at the scale of personnel envisioned in the Commission on the Defence Forces. We could do with some clarity on the relationship between the cybersecurity command and the National Cyber Security Centre. It was previously answerable to the Department of communications. It is now in the Department of justice and home affairs. I am open-minded but is there any danger of having too many cooks? Is there a clear understanding? I would imagine that if the National Cyber Security Centre is located in the Department of justice, the primary responsibility for cybersecurity policy therefore rests with the Department of justice.

Operationally, what does that mean? Is the national cybersecurity command answerable to the cybersecurity centre or what exactly is the relationship?

It is a good question. Let me get a detailed note to the Deputy to fully set it out because there have been changes to this area. The decision to relocate the National Cyber Security Centre to the Department of justice is a good one. It is something I have advocated for for quite a while. There are very good people in it but I never felt it was an appropriate fit in the Department of communications because security is always an issue led by the Department of justice. The idea that some element of security would be led by a Department other than the Department of justice or Defence did not make much sense to me.

The Department and Minister for justice lead on cybersecurity and national security; that is clear. Obviously, the Defence Forces and the Garda have specific roles and they feed into the National Cyber Security Centre. Regarding command control and who the structures within the Defence Forces are to answer to, it is the normal military chain of command. At political level, we have also recently established a national security ministerial council, which I am a member of and the Taoiseach obviously chairs, as well as the Minister for justice. That enables us to bring things together at political and Government level.

I know I am over time but the Deputy asked previously, we have assigned 19 Defence Forces specialist posts to the joint cyber defence command to start this and we are also currently seeking to recruit ten civilian cyber specialists.

That is welcome. There are still multiples of that envisioned under the commission on the future of the Defence Forces. Off the top of my head, it was about 300 but that is from memory so I might be wrong on that.

We are in a fortunate position that the intelligence elements of the Defence Forces and the Garda have a good working relationship but that is not necessarily the experience in every jurisdiction and should not be taken for granted. Similarly, in this regard, it should not necessarily be taken for granted. We have to work towards ensuring the relationship between cybersecurity command and the cybersecurity centre is good but also clear and defined. I do not need a further response beyond that but that is important. It is also probably important we have a greater sense of precisely the relationship, the chain of command and the various responsibilities of the two bodies, both of which are very important.

I agree with that and I am satisfied the chain of command is quite clear. It is an appropriate thing for me to provide the Oireachtas or the Minister for justice with a written clarity on that and I am very happy to do so.