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Dail Éireann · 2021-12-03

Part of Priority Questions

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SF Kathleen Funchion · Carlow-Kilkenny · Acting Chairman

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Q1 SF Kathleen Funchion to the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth

1. Deputy Kathleen Funchion asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the assurances and safeguards his Department can offer to children who find themselves in a situation in which their mother is not considered by the State as their legal parent (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [58929/21]

Summary of this debate

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This relates to children who have been born through surrogacy. That definitely needs to deal with the issue of international surrogacy. The issue of international surrogacy will have to be addressed.

With regard to children who are already with us, the surrogacy groups have really good legal representation and really good solutions based on international best practice. I know the Minister has met with these groups but is it possible to have a more formal meeting between the three relevant Ministers and Departments and those groups to discuss how to formalise the situations of these children so that they can be taken out of this grey area? We can do the same with regard to children and surrogacy.

Built by scoring every sentence in the debate on how distinctive its language is, then quoting the highest-scoring ones back word for word and in the order spoken. Nothing is paraphrased or invented — if a sentence appears here, it was said in the chamber. Drawn from 969 words across 6 contributions by 3 speakers.

Most used terms in this debate

How often each word appears across the whole debate, ranked by how distinctive it is to this debate rather than common to all parliamentary language.

surrogacy 8
children 12
parentless 2
conceived 3
groups 7
surrogate 2
issue 10
know 9
situations 4
believe 6
international 5
grey 2

The full debate

All 6 contributions, start to finish, in the order they were made. The one you came here for is highlighted.

SF Kathleen Funchion

What assurances can the Minister's Department offer to children who find that the State does not consider their mother their legal parent? This relates to children who have been born through surrogacy. Any proposed legislation is still some time away. What proposals are there to protect children's rights and welfare in the interim? I know the Minister supports resolving this issue and has met with relevant groups. I am just taking the opportunity to raise the issue again.

FF Stephen Donnelly

As this is a service matter, I have asked the Health Service Executive to respond to the deputy directly, as soon as possible.

SF Kathleen Funchion this contribution

I thank the Minister. As I said, I wanted to raise this issue again. I know it falls under the remits of a number of Departments, including the Departments of Justice and Health. I also know that the Minister has met with the groups. In fairness, I believe he also went out to them the day they were here outside the Dáil. This is so frustrating for them. They hear a lot of very positive words in this Chamber and in their meetings. It is rare for everybody in this Chamber to agree on something but this is one of those issues on which we seem to. There does not seem to be any movement on it. I understood that legislation is forthcoming. That definitely needs to deal with the issue of international surrogacy. That cannot be left out. Are children who are in precarious situations, perhaps because of a health issue within the family, particularly if it affects the father, going to be left technically parentless? We all know they would not actually be parentless but they may be in the eyes of the State and that is really important. Some children could be stuck in a grey area. This is an issue these groups have been raising for a very long time. As legislators, there is a responsibility on us to deal with this issue, particularly when there is such cross-party agreement on it.

GP Roderic O'Gorman

I agree with pretty much everything the Deputy has said. The issue of international surrogacy will have to be addressed. We know it is a very sensitive and complex area. We have to ensure that whatever measures we bring forward offer protection for children when they come to Ireland and for their parents but they should also offer protection to the surrogate mother. That is really important. This person will probably be in another jurisdiction and we have to be sure that protections are in place for her and that the child conceived through surrogacy can seek to establish relations with his or her surrogate mother in the future if he or she wishes to do so. The Deputy is absolutely right with regard to the children who are here now who were conceived through different techniques. The law we are bringing forward must address all of their situations, which are often quite different from one another. Bespoke legal solutions may be needed for each situation in which children have been conceived.

SF Kathleen Funchion

I have two suggestions for practical solutions. With regard to the upcoming legislation, could the Minister and the Ministers for Health and Justice write to the committee to see if the pre-legislative scrutiny stage can be progressed as a matter of urgency? I believe it falls under the remit of the Joint Committee on Health although I would argue that some of it should fall under the remit of the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth as it affects children's rights. Given that there is consensus on this matter, I believe the Bill could move through the committee and through the Houses very quickly. I believe everyone would support it. That is my first suggestion because we need to look at the legislation and the issue of international surrogacy.

With regard to children who are already with us, the surrogacy groups have really good legal representation and really good solutions based on international best practice. I know the Minister has met with these groups but is it possible to have a more formal meeting between the three relevant Ministers and Departments and those groups to discuss how to formalise the situations of these children so that they can be taken out of this grey area? I believe that could be done within a matter of months.

I know I have gone over my time but I will very briefly note that, over the past two years, we have seen that legislation can be passed quickly when there is an emergency. We can do the same with regard to children and surrogacy.

GP Roderic O'Gorman

I certainly agree. Urgency is important in this regard. However, I am sure the Deputy will agree that it is important we get this right in light of the complexity and the different situations we are dealing with. As I have said, a Bill on AHR is being advanced by the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. I believe it underwent pre-legislative scrutiny in the term of the previous Oireachtas. However, as the Deputy has pointed out, it does not address the area of international surrogacy. An Oireachtas committee could be useful in addressing that matter. I know the Ministers, Deputies Stephen Donnelly and McEntee, have been engaging very intensively on this issue. While, as Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, I obviously have to ensure the best-interests principle is always respected, the actual legislative power lies primarily with the Ministers for Health and Justice. I know that their two Departments have been engaging very intensively and that the Minister, Deputy McEntee, in particular is very eager for the engagement we have had with the groups, which, as the Deputy has said, are expert in this area, to continue. I am sure that engagement will continue.