I move amendment No. 7: In page 9, to delete lines 8 to 10.

I move amendment No. 19: In page 10, between lines 32 and 33, to insert the following: “(1) The following shall not be considered reasonable grounds to conduct a search of a person under section 9 or 10 — (a) the age of the person; (b) the race or ethnicity of the person; (c) the clothing the person is wearing; (d) the type of vehicle the person is driving.”. I welcome the new Minister of State to the Chamber. Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 are grouped together. Amendment No. 19 includes a new subsection to prevent the …

No, that is okay.

In relation to amendment No. 20, maybe the Minister of State does not have access at the moment to the data on the number of strip-searches that happen and the number at which doctors are present. Over many years, there have been only rare occasions on which it has been communicated to me - whether when I am supporting people in court in relation to community work, addiction or whatever it may be, or even from my own experience as a young person encountering the criminal justice system - that a doctor has been pres…

I move amendment No. 20: In page 10, between lines 35 and 36, to insert the following: “(2) Any search of a person under section 9 or 10 that involves the removal of clothing, other than headgear or a coat, jacket, glove or similar article of clothing, shall be conducted only with the authorisation of a member of at least the rank of inspector. (3) A member may not give authorisation under subsection (2) unless the member has reasonable grounds for believing that a relevant article cannot be found without the remov…

I move amendment No. 22: In page 11, between lines 27 and 28, to insert the following: “(c) the consequences of failing to comply with the search; (d) the right to an interpreter to understand the reasons for the search, if the person so requires.”. Section 12 sets out the right of a person to be informed of the reasons for a stop and search by a member of the Garda. It is welcome that the Bill includes provisions on that right but we are of the view that the section could be strengthened by the additions in amendm…

The provision regarding interpreters can seem overly onerous. How long does that extend the interaction? When the Chamber was not meeting during Covid, I volunteered my time with homeless, addiction and health equity services concerning homeless people who needed to be isolated in certain hostels and language was obviously a big issue. Some of those systems had interpreters who were very quickly contacted over the phone and who then interpreted back and forth with that person concerning whether he or she was going …

I will withdraw my amendment.

When we look at capturing ethnicity and, like Senator McDowell said, at how racial bias or unconscious bias comes into how we make decisions around policing, there is also something in relation to ensuring that we look at class. For a long time, class was at the forefront of how police made their decisions in terms of what community they policed the most. If a community is more policed, a person is more likely to encounter gardaí in their day at regular intervals and have more exposure. If somebody is over-policed …

Those questions are already asked in terms of victims, crimes and other systems on the PULSE system.

Yes but it is in relation to how information about stop and searches is recorded on the PULSE system. If somebody does not give the information, he or she does not give the information but it does not mean you cannot or do not attempt to collect data on it. With the way the PULSE system is set up, you could have a drop-down option that said the person refused to give his or her religion. It would not create an offence. It is more about creating the conditions under which data can be collected rather than it creatin…

I have just a couple of points. I do not really understand the census comment. Are we saying we will put some categories on the census that ask whether people have been stopped and searched? The comparison feels irrelevant. We are obviously talking about capturing data as it relates to policing methods but also with the idea it would be framed negatively against some communities, we need to be very careful when we say that because that is not what we are trying to achieve at all. If that was the case, I would not b…

To add to my earlier points and Senator McDowell's, I think the Minister mentioned that not all stop-and-searches result in arrest. At the point at which you can collect the data, that is the problem: they are being used when nothing has happened. The point is that even if you are not arrested, stop-and-searches are recorded on the PULSE system. You can be stopped and searched 20 times in a year, never have been found in possession of a drug or an article or stolen goods, never have committed a crime, never have do…

I am going to speak briefly on that point. Currently, all stops and searches are recorded on the PULSE system. Am I to understand that Senator Byrne is suggesting that people who are stopped and searched do not get added to the PULSE system, because that would be a case of telling them to go on their way, where they do not show up at several different points if they are overpoliced, where it is not just a one-off? Obviously, it matters if it is happening to people more than once. In all the times I was stopped and …

I need to pick up on the end point there. First of all, the idea was spouted earlier that the census would help us capture data. This was responded to in terms of our amendments, but what will be shared has nothing to do with our amendments. It was said that some work was ongoing with the census, but all that is shared with the census is exactly what the Minister of State has read, and it does not actually solve anything in relation to ethnicity or any of those things because they are not part of the information th…

I second the amendment.

I second the amendment.

I second the amendment.

I second the amendment.

I want to raise the issue of the planned introduction of a flat fee for criminal legal aid. I note similar flat fees have been introduced in other areas of law such as family law and they have been heavily criticised. What particularly concerns me in relation to these proposals is a flat fee of €455 regardless of the number of appearances before the court. This is not so much in relation to a debate or conversation about how much legal representatives should or should not earn, but access to justice for some of the…